Children get money, I get a good product. It's a win win situation.
So child labor laws are unnecessary if they benefit you?
If everyone is benefiting from something and no one is being harmed then yes I do believe the laws are unnecessary.
Your iPhone Was Built with Child Labor
41–50 of 57 posts
Re: Your iPhone Was Built with Child Labor
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
Fever is a symptom. Viral pneumonia is a disease. Child labor is a symptom. Unchecked hypercapitalism is a disease.
Child labor existed long before capitalism. If anything the correlation goes in the other direction with capitalism reducing child labor over time due to it’s dependence on an educated workforce.
> capitalism reducing child labor over time due to it’s dependence on an educated workforce.
Dependence on an educated workforce is orthogonal to the economic system. Rather it's a corollary of scientific and technological advancement.
Re: Your iPhone Was Built with Child Labor
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Children get money In exchange for extremely dangerous working conditions that can and usually do irreparable damage for life. It's hardly a "win" for a kid to grow up doing this for money, and have horrible health issues after the age of 30, making their remaining life miserable.
Then they shouldn't take that job. The working conditions should be made clear ahead of time so that an informed decision can be made.
>Then they shouldn't take that job.
I think it depends on where in the supply chain kids are participating. If the work is dangerous (ex. mining), they should be banned but if there is a learning experience with little risk of long term negative consequences, it should be available for the interested.
I enjoyed the computer work and newspaper route I had as a child and wouldve probably jumped at the opportunity to assemble digital devices.
Re: Your iPhone Was Built with Child Labor
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
Child labor existed long before capitalism. If anything the correlation goes in the other direction with capitalism reducing child labor over time due to it’s dependence on an educated workforce.
> capitalism reducing child labor over time due to it’s dependence on an educated workforce. Dependence on an educated workforce is orthogonal to the economic system. Rather it's a corollary of scientific and technological advancement.
Feudalism isn’t dependent on an educated workforce and historically the two seemingly could not coexist.
Re: Your iPhone Was Built with Child Labor
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
Child labor is somewhat orthogonal to deplorable conditions. Child actors can easily fit the definition. There’s also an unfortunate cultural bias where people may view for example Amish children skipping school to take in a harvest as perfectly acceptable when kids in developing economies doing the same things are suddenly not.
> Child actors can easily fit the definition. Yes, and they often work under deplorable conditions. Psychological/emotional abuse is still abuse (not to mention the forced dieting, the rampant molestation/rape, and other very physical abuses). But that highlights what makes child labor more worthy of scrutiny. Adult actors face those same conditions, and it's unacceptable that they do, but at least they have the ment…
> often work under deplorable conditions
Often isn’t always. Those abuses aren’t some inherent requirement for child acting to exist.
Re: Your iPhone Was Built with Child Labor
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
> capitalism reducing child labor over time due to it’s dependence on an educated workforce. Dependence on an educated workforce is orthogonal to the economic system. Rather it's a corollary of scientific and technological advancement.
Feudalism isn’t dependent on an educated workforce and historically the two seemingly could not coexist.
Re: Your iPhone Was Built with Child Labor
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
Fever is a symptom. Viral pneumonia is a disease. Child labor is a symptom. Unchecked hypercapitalism is a disease.
Child labor existed long before capitalism. If anything the correlation goes in the other direction with capitalism reducing child labor over time due to it’s dependence on an educated workforce.
While your first statement is true, I'm not sure it follows that there's a reverse correlation.
In fact, I think (having actually changed my response a couple of times while thinking it through) that unless you go back far enough that you're talking about genuine subsistence agriculture, the reasons for child labor are very similar in both cases: The wealthy and powerful take so much of the output of the laborers that without children working as well, there wouldn't be enough money to put food on the table. (Or simply enough food to put on the table.)
We produce enough, as a society, to provide for everyone. Feeding the world in 2023 is a distribution problem. Children are put to work not because it's necessary, but because the few at the top have taken, and continue to gatekeep, so much from the rest of us that too many families don't have a choice.
That's not really different between 2023 and 1023, from where I sit.
Re: Your iPhone Was Built with Child Labor
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
So child labor laws are unnecessary if they benefit you?
If everyone is benefiting from something and no one is being harmed then yes I do believe the laws are unnecessary.
The benefits and detriments the children get by working are not equal to those they could get if they were able to get an education and have free time to play, instead.
"This is beneficial enough that some people choose it" and "this is a genuine good thing for those people, compared to the other options" are not equivalent.
Re: Your iPhone Was Built with Child Labor
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
Feudalism isn’t dependent on an educated workforce and historically the two seemingly could not coexist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma
Hardly, feudalism runs into span of control issues. Its rise and fall around the world coincides with a specific mix of agricultural practice and at most light industry.
Thus not all economic systems are compatible with an educated workforce which means they aren’t orthogonal.
Re: Your iPhone Was Built with Child Labor
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
Child labor existed long before capitalism. If anything the correlation goes in the other direction with capitalism reducing child labor over time due to it’s dependence on an educated workforce.
While your first statement is true, I'm not sure it follows that there's a reverse correlation. In fact, I think (having actually changed my response a couple of times while thinking it through) that unless you go back far enough that you're talking about genuine subsistence agriculture, the reasons for child labor are very similar in both cases: The wealthy and powerful take so much of the output of the laborers tha…
There’s still a massive carveout in US child labor law for farming. In 2023 Families making well into six figures are using young teens not because they can’t afford to pay someone, but for more practical reason and the view it’s useful training. For related reasons family businesses also have more flexibility. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/child-labor
What has changed is not just the levels of automation involved, but also the percentage of people working as farmers. A Doctor, Lawyer, Programmer, etc simply can’t leverage their kids nearly as effectively.