Stop whining about “The EU Cookie Policy” and improve your ways • Hacker News Board

Re: Stop whining about “The EU Cookie Policy” and improve your ways

#121

Post by goodpoint » Fri, Apr 14, 2023, 10:29 AM UTC

oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #42

olivierduval wrote: post #11

Actually it's a bit more complex (but not much) than what is described: 1st party may need user consent when they will use personal datas for something that is not the intended service (legitimate use). For example, for a shopping cart: cookies are necessary for the service, so no problem. For fraud detection : no problem because it's a legitimate use. But if you start tracking with a user cookie what pages your user…

> if you start tracking with a user cookie what pages your users are viewing (statistics collection), then... you need the user consent What about if you're Amazon and you want to show 'people who bought this also bought this' content? Then the tracking is necessary.

Not at all. You don't need cookies and consent for anonymized statistics.

Re: Stop whining about “The EU Cookie Policy” and improve your ways

#122

Post by germanier » Fri, Apr 14, 2023, 10:29 AM UTC

friendzis wrote: post #107

oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So is that tracking or not? It's definitely storing personal information, so it feels like it counts, but surely the intent is for a self-contained order database to get a pass on this? Maybe not.

You don't need cookies for that

Although these things are called "cookie banner", it doesn't matter whether you need/use cookies or do it server-side. It's about the data that is being processed and the intent, not the technical implementation.

Re: Stop whining about “The EU Cookie Policy” and improve your ways

#123

Post by hammyhavoc » Fri, Apr 14, 2023, 10:29 AM UTC

ActorNightly wrote: post #96

germanier wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to accept because many, many people won't agree with you and do give a fuck.

To anyone that doesn't agree with me, please show me your rooted android phone that has no popular apps installed that collect any data, and doesn't use a sim card. Because if you say you give a fuck about privacy, and use a modern android phone with OEM rom or an iPhone, you either don't understand what privacy is and shouldn't be talking about it in the first place, or you are a hypocrite.

It all depends on your assumed threat model, but also not conflating privacy and security, but remembering that compromised privacy may also compromise security. Not everybody's requirements are the same.

Re: Stop whining about “The EU Cookie Policy” and improve your ways

#124

Post by goodpoint » Fri, Apr 14, 2023, 10:30 AM UTC

veltas wrote: post #43

>Tech bros love to whine about "The EU cookie policy" that simply doesn't exist the way they imagine it. All these popups are the most radical way to interpret the explicit consent demanded by regulations when sending data to a 3rd party. An ongoing provocation by the ad/tracker industry to blame their ruthless data hoarding on the EU. The official EU website has one of these annoying pop-ups. Are they part of the pr…

> Are they part of the provocation?

No, why are you assuming that?

Re: Stop whining about “The EU Cookie Policy” and improve your ways

#125

Post by dkersten » Fri, Apr 14, 2023, 10:30 AM UTC

ginko wrote: post #71

veltas wrote: post #43

>Tech bros love to whine about "The EU cookie policy" that simply doesn't exist the way they imagine it. All these popups are the most radical way to interpret the explicit consent demanded by regulations when sending data to a 3rd party. An ongoing provocation by the ad/tracker industry to blame their ruthless data hoarding on the EU. The official EU website has one of these annoying pop-ups. Are they part of the pr…

That one's the pretty much the optimal implementation though. * it's a small bar on the bottom * the site works without clicking on the consent buttons * it has clear "opt-in" or "opt-out" options * no annoying "customize my permissions" sub-menu with tons of enabled switches and dark patterns

It’s also fast. I clicked the don’t allow button and it responded instantaneously. Many cookie banners are (probably purposely, at least when should don’t allow) slow as hell.

Re: Stop whining about “The EU Cookie Policy” and improve your ways

#126

Post by ActorNightly » Fri, Apr 14, 2023, 10:31 AM UTC

raverbashing wrote: post #104

ActorNightly wrote: post #63

>So stop blaming "the EU" and ask yourself if this is the internet we want. ...Yes, thats exactly the internet "we" want. I don't get why it so hard to accept that people simply dgaf about privacy, and much prefer free products online paid for by ads. And there is nothing wrong with that, because for those that actually care about privacy, there are plenty of tools.

Ah yes, the "internet we want", where Ad geniuses will spam you for the same thing you just bought off Amazon and mobile sites turning your phone into a hand warmer with all the ad crap they have to load and all the 3rd party cookies they add

And yet, before GDPR, when all of this was happening, those sites still saw increase in visitors and still made money, because people learned to ignore the ads since the design of the core website was pretty good and ads were not obtrusive to user experience.

Re: Stop whining about “The EU Cookie Policy” and improve your ways

#127

Post by sacado2 » Fri, Apr 14, 2023, 10:32 AM UTC

ActorNightly wrote: post #63

>So stop blaming "the EU" and ask yourself if this is the internet we want. ...Yes, thats exactly the internet "we" want. I don't get why it so hard to accept that people simply dgaf about privacy, and much prefer free products online paid for by ads. And there is nothing wrong with that, because for those that actually care about privacy, there are plenty of tools.

Some people dgaf. They are free to click on "I agree with everything."

Some people do gaf. They are free to click on "I don't agree with non-legitimate use of my data."

Those who don't want to submit to these simple rules are free to not do business with EU citizens at all.

Everybody's free. EU is the new land of Freedom it seems.

Re: Stop whining about “The EU Cookie Policy” and improve your ways

#128

Post by mnw21cam » Fri, Apr 14, 2023, 10:32 AM UTC

GranularRecipe wrote: post #89

> "To make this very clear: user/visitor consent is only needed for data going to 3rd parties." I think this statement is categorically false. Art. 6 GDPR ( https://gdpr-info.eu/art-6-gdpr/ ) lists exhausively the reasons for lawful processing of personal data which applies not only to cookies, but also IP addresses etc. The "cookie consent" addresses Art. 6 Point 1(a). Whether third-parties (data processors) are inv…

Agreed. It isn't the third party that is the issue - it is the separate purpose.

For example, if I access a web page, I'm giving my IP address to the server, so that it knows how to sent the data I just asked for back. That IP address is personal information, but it is necessary for the server to fulfil the purpose of the task I just asked for. That server also gives the IP address to a third party - the router in between it and me. That's also necessary, because otherwise the packets can't be routed, and it's fine legally.

However, if the company running the web page were to take that IP address and store it and use it for deep analytics, matching my request up to other requests from the same IP address, then the personal data has not been handed over to a third party, but it is being used for a purpose which requires consent, and would be illegal unless that consent had been obtained. That data use isn't necessary for the original purpose of the task I asked for, which is to serve me a web page - it is a separate purpose.

Re: Stop whining about “The EU Cookie Policy” and improve your ways

#129

Post by hammyhavoc » Fri, Apr 14, 2023, 10:32 AM UTC

iamnotsure wrote: post #82

Cookies invade privacy, cookie prompts invade both privacy and attention.

Is the purpose of the prompt itself not to invade your attention to make a decision on whether you want them or not?

Likewise, how does the prompt invade your privacy if you don't act upon it?

Re: Stop whining about “The EU Cookie Policy” and improve your ways

#130

Post by Nextgrid » Fri, Apr 14, 2023, 10:32 AM UTC

baby wrote: post #116

fsh wrote: post #30

GitHub got rid of their banners in 2020: https://github.blog/2020-12-17-no-cookie-for-you/ I believe there is also a lot of "cargo culting" where site admins copy what everyone else is doing without understanding the legal background.

That’s what happens when you add regulations to an industry of small players who can’t afford to spend time or money in understanding these things

The regulation is much easier to understand and comply with than many other laws you already need to comply with (taxation, etc) and nobody seems to complain about.

The problem isn't the complexity of the regulation, it's that entire businesses and careers have been built on the fact that spyware became decriminalized in the last decade and they are fighting back with misinformation to try and preserve this status-quo.