Live data from Hacker News

I hope you will never see this letter (1961)

news.lettersofnote.com

41–50 of 122 posts

Re: I hope you will never see this letter (1961)

#41
post #31
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need a t there (native Russian speaker), it's a clear ch like in check. This is a common mistake when transliterating the Russian ч (ch), t doesn't add anything. In fact, t makes it more difficult to pronounce it while it's an easy sound for most people to say.

What’s happening here is that /tɕ/ is a single sound — I’d transcribe it /t͡ɕ/, with a little tiebar to make that clear. This sound is an ‘affricate’, meaning that it’s pronounced by starting with a /t/ and releasing it with the tongue so that it finishes with a /ɕ/ sound. /ɕ/ alone would be the sound written in Russian as ⟨щ⟩, which is of course different. Incidentally English ⟨ch⟩ is also affricated, although it’s…

> This sound is an ‘affricate’, meaning that it’s pronounced by starting with a /t/ and releasing it with the tongue so that it finishes with a /ɕ/ sound.

I don't agree. I don't start with a /t/ when I'm about to say any Russian word that starts with ч (ch). The tongue is in a different place altogether.

With т, the tongue is closer to teeth than when I start with ч (ch). This should be true for all since we're talking about more or less the same sound – ч and /ch/.

Of course for French and English speakers /ch/ represents two different sounds.

Re: I hope you will never see this letter (1961)

#43
post #24
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no one, not even high level party members took this bullshit seriously enough Don't know when you were born (I was in the 1960s). You're wrong. A lot of people, especially Gagarin's generation, took what you call bullshit seriously and believed in it. Hence, were willing to lay down their life for the cause.

>"A lot of people, especially Gagarin's generation, took what you call bullshit seriously and believed in it." This is true. Many people did believe back then.

[dead]

Re: I hope you will never see this letter (1961)

#45
post #8
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I wish to dedicate this flight to the people of the new communist society, which we are already entering, to our great Motherland, and to our science" And make sure the secret police have no reason to suspect you

What makes you think he didn't mean what he wrote?

It was the USSR, nobody did. But there was a vast institution dedicated to ensuring that everyone maintained the doublespeak.

A country can achieve great things and be built on a greater lie that everyone pays homage to but doesn’t really believe.

Re: I hope you will never see this letter (1961)

#46
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Native Russian speaker here) I don’t really agree. The “t” and “ch” require very different tongue and jaw positions and combining them is awkward and would require a vowel in between when used in a real word. English speakers are perfectly capable of pronouncing ch vs sh (e.g. chair vs share) whereas sh vs sh’ (ш/щ) might be more challenging.

The IPA of chair also contains a t though: /t͡ʃɛə(ɹ)/ I think it makes sense. To me there is a clear difference between chair and sheet, where chair starts with the sound of a t. Same thing with Ч.

That (the IPA designations) could, and probably is, helpful for breaking down sounds on paper but taking that /t/ from what is a manual of sorts and dropping it into a foreign transliteration is the opposite of helpful.

Everybody expect the French won't have any problem reading out without stumbling Chkalov or Chmil. Supplying the /t/ is a copout to please the French and, as a bonus, to piss of the Russians (especially the Chekalovs ones).

Re: I hope you will never see this letter (1961)

#49
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. It does not

Real letters to wives don't include patriotic and political phrases about children being raised in a new paradise to come, except those written by cult members and those (in this case) written under duress.

A farmboy going to space praising communism makes a whole lot of sense.

Just compare to the average nonsense you hear even impoverished American peasants say about "freedom."

Re: I hope you will never see this letter (1961)

#50

That he felt need to include such blatant political statements in a letter like this is telling.

What blatant political statement?

GP may be referring to this:

> Raise them as people who will deserve to live a new communist society.

> I wish to dedicate this flight to the people of the new communist society...

Would it seem political if someone wrote:

> Raise them as people who will deserve to live a new capitalist society.

> I wish to dedicate this flight to the people of the new capitalist society...

Post reply on HN