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916 Days of Emacs
251–260 of 309 posts
Re: 916 Days of Emacs
#252Earlier quoted context omitted.
Use both heavily. Vim is fantastic for editing one off files. Emacs on the other hand is fantastic to work on a computer for a long period of time. I do use evil mode, as I do think it's a much better way to work in a file. Project management, magit, org-mode, being able to edit functionality of the editor within couple of mins to adjust for an temporary change/or indefinitely is what keeps me coming back to emacs. I…
Vim has terminal support, gdb support built in. We have vim plugins maintained by the top Vim plugin specialist for git and project management. We have vimwiki, markdown, org mode support. We have fuzzy finding, autocomplete, lap support. I really don't think you can reasonably tell me you can't live in Vim, when I have had the same session open editing the linux source tree for like two months now.
>I really don't think you can reasonably tell me you can't live in Vim
Vim at the end of the day is a terminal application and when it comes to debugging objectively it does not live up to the graphical interface of a proper IDE. Emacs is only slightly better in that regard, it's a GUI application but the age shows as well.
I don't think it's an accident that a lot of vim users are obsessive print-debuggers and that's just a plain handicap coming from living in a terminal. From just observing a lot of developers work I would say not knowing how to fully utilize debuggers and the modern interfaces we have for them is the number one productivity killer.
Re: 916 Days of Emacs
#253I've been a hardcore vi user pretty much my entire life, but I decided to force myself to spend a year using emacs a while back just to see what all the fuss was about. When the year was over and I "allowed" myself to return to vi, it was like a huge weight lifted off my shoulders... to this day I still don't see what the hype was about. On the plus side, though, I memorized the emacs cursor movement commands, which…
The some reason is the (GNU) readline library that powers most command line editing.
Re: 916 Days of Emacs
#254Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Emacs is an operating system, not an editor what does it take for this tired and false meme to die?
Why do you think it's false? Emacs is an interactive lisp environment with at text-oriented interface. Text editing is simply another lisp program that manipulates the interface to work well for this specific task. Emacs also has a built in email client, RSS reader, IRC client, calculator, file browser, web browser, markup language, regex DSL, Vim emulator, terminal emulator, custom elisp based shell, interactive REP…
> Emacs also has a built in email client, RSS reader, IRC client, calculator, file browser, web browser, markup language, regex DSL, Vim emulator, terminal emulator, custom elisp based shell, interactive REPL that works for several programming languages, and probably at least 200 more things that I don't even realize exist yet.
Chrome and Firefox also have all this stuff, but I don't see people trying to conflate a web browser with an OS. See the difference between ChromeOS[0] and Chrome[1].
Re: 916 Days of Emacs
#255Earlier quoted context omitted.
I had a similar experience, but came to the opposite conclusion. I walked away replacing vim with emacs as my daily driver. Elisp is far more extensible than vimscript and evil-mode is pretty much at 1-1 feature parity with the real vim. I don't care much for the emacs movement keybindings except for the readline movement commands. > to this day I still don't see what the hype was about. Most of vim is written in C w…
Vimscript is a pain but these days you can use Neovim which supports Lua as a replacement. I’d recommend checking out what Neovim has to offer. ThePrimeagen has a great video on setting up Neovim as an IDE from scratch. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w7i4amO_zaE
I mean it's a matter of preference, I personally find vimscript a lot more readable for vim configuration. Maybe not for more advanced stuff, I don't know, but how is the following:
vim.keymap.set("n", "K", vim.lsp.buf.hover, { buffer = buffnr, desc = "vim.lsp.buf.hover" })
vim.api.nvim_buf_set_keymap(bufnr, "n", "K", "lua vim.lsp.buf.hover()")
better than
nmap K :lua vim.lsp.buf.hover()
It's like the javafication of vim configuration.
Re: 916 Days of Emacs
#256Earlier quoted context omitted.
Does that mean you have a nice setup for running emacs as a server on a remote machine and connecting via a local client? I've tried this a couple of times but it seems to be prohibitively awkward and I'm stuck with the idiosyncrasies of Tramp or even just saying in a vterm. I'd be very grateful if you (or anyone else) can explain how to do this.
I just run emacs on the remote server (inside tmux), emacs works great on the terminal, in fact, I don't use GUI emacs. code, orgmode, magit are just text.
I even started baking emacs into docker images we use for running debugging tools in kubernetes environments. Can quickly edit and run little scripts to do admin and operations and debugging tasks.
Re: 916 Days of Emacs
#257I've been a hardcore vi user pretty much my entire life, but I decided to force myself to spend a year using emacs a while back just to see what all the fuss was about. When the year was over and I "allowed" myself to return to vi, it was like a huge weight lifted off my shoulders... to this day I still don't see what the hype was about. On the plus side, though, I memorized the emacs cursor movement commands, which…
When I was at the university and started programming on UNIX, the professor said we should try both emacs and vi and see which we like better, and provided links to some tutorials. I tried them both and liked vi. Emacs seemed slower. In my undergraduate wisdom, I deemed emacs to be "stupid" and went on with my life using vi. After I had been programming professionally for about ten years, I decided that my harsh judg…
Not saying your choice is wrong for you, but I always map caps lock to control and that makes Emacs far more ergonomic.
Re: 916 Days of Emacs
#258Earlier quoted context omitted.
How do you surf the web in vim? How do you read email, RSS news, and usenet with vim? Does vim have a chat client as powerful as ERC? Mainly, though, is vim programmed in and extended through a lisp, and does it have an entire lisp ecosystem built around it? Don't get me wrong, I love vim, and used it and vi for 25 years before switching to emacs. But my emacs can do far, far more than vim ever did... and there's no…
seems weird to me that one would want to do any of these things inside vim... though it should be possible with the right plugins... but why? just use a window manager like screen or tmux to multi-task.
It's because of the tight integration with the rest of the editor and all the rest of the packages that I use.
For example, when I go to edit an email I don't have to start up an external editor, so there is no context switching. Also, as emacs is super powerful, the editor that I use to edit my emails is super powerful, unlike the editors in most other mail clients.
Copying and pasting or importing/exporting between the various packages and other emacs buffers that I use is also seamless unlike anything that you do between conventional, separate applications. Everywhere that I go within emacs and everything that I do has the full power of emacs to do it with. I have macros, snippets, and elisp (to name just a few) at my fingertips.
Another advantage is that all these packages that I use (email, my git interface, RSS reader, etc) are all written in elisp and are integrated using elisp, so if you know elisp (which I do) it's easy to modify them to your liking, and have them do exactly what you want. This makes the whole experience super customizable to an extent unmatched pretty much anywhere else.
Without such integration and customizability, virtually all other software that I've used seems primitive and rigid by comparison.
So, yeah, it makes a big difference.
Re: 916 Days of Emacs
#259Earlier quoted context omitted.
When I was at the university and started programming on UNIX, the professor said we should try both emacs and vi and see which we like better, and provided links to some tutorials. I tried them both and liked vi. Emacs seemed slower. In my undergraduate wisdom, I deemed emacs to be "stupid" and went on with my life using vi. After I had been programming professionally for about ten years, I decided that my harsh judg…
> why would a professional programmer not want to invest the time to learn to type properly: typing fast boosts your productivity significantly. I have not found typing speed to correlate well with productivity. I spend quite a lot of time thinking while coding.
It certainly helps to reduce latency of being able to test out your thoughts, which can be very useful for staying in a good flow state.
Of course it doesn’t help at all if you have a long build or deploy process before you can see the outcome of your changes.
Re: 916 Days of Emacs
#260Earlier quoted context omitted.
Lots of vim users do that too, in fact the ADM-3A terminal vi was written on had ctrl where caps-lock is now and escape where tab is.
ADM-3A also has - the : key to the right of the 0 on the number row, no Shift needed. - the Enter key to the right of the P. I've made both changes to my keyboard layout and, not surprisingly, it's quite convenient. Downside is, you'll have to move the original keys somewhere else. But since I already intended to totally reshuffle all the non-alpha keys for RSI reasons, it wasn't an issue for me.
I'm in the process of rearranging my keyboard due to occasional mild pain. Mind if I ask what layout you ended up with for the other keys? Any experience with the more esoteric arrangements like triggering modifiers when holding down the home row keys?