Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

European privacy watchdog creates ChatGPT task force

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 90 posts

Re: European privacy watchdog creates ChatGPT task force

#61

Post by jacquesm »

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #56
whiplash451 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU has all the ingredients to build a competitor. And the first mover’s advantage can be compensated by other things. The reality is that the EU tech community is just shitting their pants to throw their hat into the ring.

> EU has all the ingredients to build a competitor. ... Except for VC funding from non risk averse investors. You are not going to build an EU openAI on Horizon2020 grants. Also EU investors are closer to business angels when you compare with the VC funding scene in the US.

Precisely. Anybody ignoring that factor is limiting their understanding of why this keeps happening.

Re: European privacy watchdog creates ChatGPT task force

#62

Post by frozencell »

numbers_guy wrote: post #24

Meanwhile, where are all the ChatGPT competitors of EU origin? I feel ashamed to live on this side of the Atlantic, sometimes.

> ChatGPT competitors of EU origin?

ChatGPT is not research. If you want real research: https://ai.facebook.com/blog/large-language-model-llama-meta...

Edit: end paper is https://arxiv.org/abs/2302.13971

> Hugo Touvron, Thibaut Lavril, Gautier Izacard, Xavier Martinet, Marie-Anne Lachaux, Timothée Lacroix, Baptiste Rozière, Naman Goyal, Eric Hambro, Faisal Azhar, Aurelien Rodriguez, Armand Joulin, Edouard Grave, Guillaume Lample

> We introduce LLaMA, a collection of foundation language models ranging from 7B to 65B parameters. We train our models on trillions of tokens, and show that it is possible to train state-of-the-art models using publicly available datasets exclusively, without resorting to proprietary and inaccessible datasets. In particular, LLaMA-13B outperforms GPT-3 (175B) on most benchmarks, and LLaMA-65B is competitive with the best models, Chinchilla-70B and PaLM-540B. We release all our models to the research community.

Re: European privacy watchdog creates ChatGPT task force

#63

Post by frozencell »

sjaak wrote: post #29
numbers_guy wrote: post #24

Meanwhile, where are all the ChatGPT competitors of EU origin? I feel ashamed to live on this side of the Atlantic, sometimes.

Don't be; look up some of the founders[1] of OpenAI: Ilya Sutskever - born in Russia Wojciech Zaremba - born in Poland Andrej Karpathy - born in Slovakia [1] according to wikipedia

No, it's the research founding team mostly. The most important was the business team: Sam Altman, Reid Hoffman, Jessica Livingston, Elon Musk, Peter Thiel and Microsoft with their Azure supercomputers.

Edit: the only supercomputer industry in Europe was developed by France's first* president Charles De Gaulle (plan Calcul) for their country military or civil nuclear strategy which the US deep state did not like very much. A French president unilaterally killed this plan Calcul under US advice and sold Bull to American company (Honeywell) despite the opportunity to merge Bull with a few European computer giants.

Re: European privacy watchdog creates ChatGPT task force

#64

Post by maebert »

Most comments here seem to be missing the legal conundrum that European countries, especially Germany find themselves in.

Germany and to some extend the EU guarantees the “right to be forgotten”, ie. You can request that a company deletes all data tied to your person.

However, with LLMs this is technically simply not possible. While that particular issue hasn’t come up in court yet, this is where that whole ill-advised ban is heading.

I for one support the right to be forgotten, but not at the cost of shutting down innovation.

We need a “do not encode” flag on content similar to a “do not track” header. Not all companies will respect that, but it might pave the way for AI companies to work with strict EU privacy laws.

Re: European privacy watchdog creates ChatGPT task force

#65

Post by olabyne »

frozencell wrote: post #62
numbers_guy wrote: post #24

Meanwhile, where are all the ChatGPT competitors of EU origin? I feel ashamed to live on this side of the Atlantic, sometimes.

> ChatGPT competitors of EU origin? ChatGPT is not research. If you want real research: https://ai.facebook.com/blog/large-language-model-llama-meta... Edit: end paper is https://arxiv.org/abs/2302.13971 > Hugo Touvron, Thibaut Lavril, Gautier Izacard, Xavier Martinet, Marie-Anne Lachaux, Timothée Lacroix, Baptiste Rozière, Naman Goyal, Eric Hambro, Faisal Azhar, Aurelien Rodriguez, Armand Joulin, Edouard Grave, Guil…

That's a lot of french names there

Re: European privacy watchdog creates ChatGPT task force

#66

Post by pkaye »

maebert wrote: post #64

Most comments here seem to be missing the legal conundrum that European countries, especially Germany find themselves in. Germany and to some extend the EU guarantees the “right to be forgotten”, ie. You can request that a company deletes all data tied to your person. However, with LLMs this is technically simply not possible. While that particular issue hasn’t come up in court yet, this is where that whole ill-advis…

The "right to be forgotten" could be done by filtering the input data to the AI model.

Re: European privacy watchdog creates ChatGPT task force

#67

Post by harperlee »

pkaye wrote: post #66
maebert wrote: post #64

Most comments here seem to be missing the legal conundrum that European countries, especially Germany find themselves in. Germany and to some extend the EU guarantees the “right to be forgotten”, ie. You can request that a company deletes all data tied to your person. However, with LLMs this is technically simply not possible. While that particular issue hasn’t come up in court yet, this is where that whole ill-advis…

The "right to be forgotten" could be done by filtering the input data to the AI model.

Theoretically, yes. But pragmatically, you can’t retrain the model each time someone requests to be forgotten.

Re: European privacy watchdog creates ChatGPT task force

#68

Post by thomastjeffery »

riffraff wrote: post #22
thomastjeffery wrote: post #16

What is the concern? Is it that the training corpus may contain private info? I think that's pretty valid, but what data is being used that isn't already publicly available? If private info is publicly available, then maybe we should put our effort into resolving that . Is it that user dialogue prompts are being saved into the model (effectively saving them into the training corpus)? Is OpenAI being upfront about tha…

there are multiple concerns, of varying validity, at least: * ChatGPT claims to be 13+ only, but does not actually check that * data got leaked across prompts, which is probably bad * OpenAI is not clear/upfront enough on what it does with your own input * ChatGPT manipulates, in some sense, personal information, but does not provide a way for those impacted to edit/delete it (which might be hard/impossible, but that…

> ChatGPT claims to be 13+ only, but does not actually check that

Does anyone? It's not like we are IDing teenagers on the internet.

> data got leaked across prompts, which is probably bad

If prompts are being saved into the model, then that's pretty nearly equivalent.

> OpenAI is not clear/upfront enough on what it does with your own input

OK, now let's do something about it. I'm not sure how that involves making a "task force", though.

> ChatGPT manipulates, in some sense, personal information, but does not provide a way for those impacted to edit/delete it (which might be hard/impossible, but that does not change the effect on someone who gets impacted by it)

Can you just save all the prompts you model, then subtract the difference (to delete that prompt) later? If not, then the model itself is effectively laundering prompts.

Outside that context, it does get tricky: if the personal info was present in the training corpus, then that corpus needs better curation. Even so, that is still a problem domain that exists mostly outside ChatGPT itself.

Re: European privacy watchdog creates ChatGPT task force

#69

Post by 29athrowaway »

jacquesm wrote: post #15
29athrowaway wrote: post #5

They just want to collect a large amount of money and then call it a day. Then wait a few more months and do it again. It is just extortion but legal and with a few extra steps.

The EU privacy watchdog is doing its work in a pretty measured way, and has broad support among the population, at least the segment that I'm aware of. They stand between us and various companies that use our data for purposes never intended when the data was shared. The industry has had more than two decades to self regulate but instead of putting on the brakes it turned into an arms race, and the only way to stop t…

No. The biggest data hoarders are alive and well in Europe.

The fines are the cost of doing business.

Re: European privacy watchdog creates ChatGPT task force

#70

Post by 0xDEF »

numbers_guy wrote: post #24

Meanwhile, where are all the ChatGPT competitors of EU origin? I feel ashamed to live on this side of the Atlantic, sometimes.

The Europeans behind Stable Diffusion (Stability.AI etc.) could have remained closed source and competed with MidJourney. Instead they open sourced their work.

Last I checked MidJourney is valued at $1 billion and Stability.AI is struggling to survive.

Post reply on HN