The Free Software Foundation is dying • Hacker News Board

Re: The Free Software Foundation is dying

#241

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Apr 13, 2023, 5:13 PM UTC

dralley wrote: post #72

jmclnx wrote: post #4

>It’s time for Richard Stallman to go I was expecting to see this, there is nothing more corporations would like more then to see him gone. Then they can take full control of the FSF, already they have their hands in it. So far many of his predictions have come true and there are a few more that seems to be on their way to happening. What FSF should do is work stop the move to secure boot. Already there are Intel Lap…

What significant, tangible accomplishments does Stallmann have in the past 15 years? Because even before the controversy, it seems like he: * Presided over and actively contributed to the decline of GCC and gave up the world of compiler-based-tools and compiler research to LLVM by insisting on making it impossible to use GCC as a library. Pissed off the emacs maintainers in the process. * Pissed off the glibc maintai…

[deleted]

Re: The Free Software Foundation is dying

#242

Post by COGlory » Thu, Apr 13, 2023, 5:30 PM UTC

micromacrofoot wrote: post #52

jmclnx wrote: post #4

>It’s time for Richard Stallman to go I was expecting to see this, there is nothing more corporations would like more then to see him gone. Then they can take full control of the FSF, already they have their hands in it. So far many of his predictions have come true and there are a few more that seems to be on their way to happening. What FSF should do is work stop the move to secure boot. Already there are Intel Lap…

I really don't understand how people think one weird creep is somehow holding back corporate america from doing anything. The controversy isn't imagined, he's said some really off-putting stuff. At this point he's become so polarizing it doesn't matter anyway, it's just some weird tech drama no one wants anything to do with. The genie is out of the bottle and if we want this to be about software we need to move on.

Since when has the FSF been about software? It's about freedom.

Re: The Free Software Foundation is dying

#243

Post by bionade24 » Fri, Apr 14, 2023, 4:54 PM UTC

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #232

bionade24 wrote: post #34

It's crazy that the FSF only stands up for license violations of the GNU project, not all GPL licensed projects. That's the reason the software freedom conservancy was created in the 1st place. RMS' management of the GNU project derailed long ago, from him vetoing for his jokes in project he's not involved anymore, going OT & insulting on mailing lists and often threatening GNU maintainers by stating that their proje…

Both organisations require copyright assignment. https://sfconservancy.org/assignment/

The SFC currently tries to win a lawsuit out of "GPL software user" perspective:

https://sfconservancy.org/copyleft-compliance/vizio.html

Re: The Free Software Foundation is dying

#244

Post by patemmschmitz » Sat, Apr 15, 2023, 11:49 AM UTC

erk__ wrote: post #222

Mizza wrote: post #3

Not much new here, but I do echo the call for new licenses. I would like to see an "Affero MIT" license where I get web-accessible credit for my contribution to a web service and something like an "Affero LGPL" to fill in the gap exposed by the ElasticSearch re-licensing debacle.

A example of a "Affero LGPL" would be the EU license: EUPL https://joinup.ec.europa.eu/sites/default/files/custom-page/... Edit: This paper also gives a good overview of the license https://op.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/c15...

True! Regarding distribution as a service, the EUPL is like the AGPL, but simply written, short and clear. It is copyleft, but allows combined derivatives to be distributed under 10 compatible licences (including MPL, OSL, GPL2 & 3 and AGPL). The European Union (nobel peace prize 2012) is adopting the Interoperable Europe Act, a regulation that will make the EUPL a default licence proposed for all Member States public bodies software as from 2024. And by the way, this new regulation will be supported by a "Interoperable Europe Community" of users. The purpose is still to define and may not be seen as creating a "European FSF" (Who said bureaucratic?)... However, Sometimes it is better to be supported by solid institutions than by an aging guru...

Re: The Free Software Foundation is dying

#245

Post by MaxBarraclough » Sat, Apr 15, 2023, 1:23 PM UTC

bionade24 wrote: post #243

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both organisations require copyright assignment. https://sfconservancy.org/assignment/

The SFC currently tries to win a lawsuit out of "GPL software user" perspective: https://sfconservancy.org/copyleft-compliance/vizio.html

Good point, I should have been more precise: they require copyright assignment if you want a special commitment from them to enforce the licence terms of your project.

Will be interesting to see where that lawsuit goes.

Re: The Free Software Foundation is dying

#246

Post by patemmschmitz » Sat, Apr 15, 2023, 6:55 PM UTC

Hello all, I found this debate after 4 days of "internet vacation" to fulfill a dream of my grandson (10 years old) to go with me on the Legoland roller coaster in Denmark. What shocks me is the reproach made to RMS to be old! The real reproach would be to be dogmatic, stubborn, incapable of compromise, which perhaps is partly justified. I am over 70 myself and still enjoy advising the European Commission on FLOSS and the EUPL license. Old age is when dreams give way to regrets, Kind regards, Patrice-Emmanuel Schmitz - EC Joinup legal support

Re: The Free Software Foundation is dying

#247

Post by rollcat » Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 1:11 PM UTC

cgio wrote: post #30

Maybe it’s dying because it already succeeded in its goals. That’s a good thing. From my myopic perspective, RMS is FSF. And he has changed the discussion around software forever. Now we need another kind of freedom, we feel it but cannot articulate it. And whoever articulates it, I wish them all the best, whether they do so under the banner of FSF or something else. One thing I am almost sure of is that whatever wat…

> Now we need another kind of freedom, we feel it but cannot articulate it.

Simple: empower the user. Focus on the user's freedom to do things.

I think FSF's goals can be easily rephrased in terms of that "new" freedom, while remaining consistent with the original vision.

I also think this is where free software is failing very hard in the recent decades. I was running Debian+SailfishOS as my daily drivers up until 2019, when I completely switched to the Apple ecosystem, after one simple realisation: it empowered me and granted me the freedom to do more with my devices.

There is no intrinsic reason why Apple is better at empowering their users than FOSS is, I think it's the exact opposite: FOSS as a principle and as a development practice has proven over and over again that it can compete with, and even take out proprietary juggernauts - in spaces other than personal computing.

I have on my desk (just for fun) a PowerBook G4 (2001) with OSX 10.5 (2007), and I think that machine + OS is still ahead in usability vs a modern release of KDE or Gnome.

I don't know, I don't think bridging that gap is impossible, but that might require unthinkable compromises like acknowledging the need for proprietary Wifi firmware, CPU microcode, or single sign-on for Google/Outlook/iCloud mail and calendar. So I'm not sure if it will ever happen.