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The U.S. cracked a $3.4B crypto heist and Bitcoin’s anonymity

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171–180 of 243 posts

Re: The U.S. cracked a $3.4B crypto heist and Bitcoin’s anonymity

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Open" is a heavily overloaded term. One of the main premises of Bitcoin is tamperproofness and permissionless participation. That in itself does not equate to lack of anonymity. Just have a look at Zcash[0] or Monero[1]. In general, the idea that openness and anonymity are in conflict with each other has not been true for at least 40 years. There's entire field of mathematics dedicated to solving this problem known…

yeah but zcash and monero are not bitcoin. and again, your transaction and back into bitcoin are completely open and trackable by anyone.

Sure, but that's due to Bitcoins implementation. There's nothing inherent to "open" ledgers that prevent them from providing anonymity.

My point is: dunk on Bitcoin all you want. Just don't drag the general idea of permissionless, open ledgers into this mud fight.

Re: The U.S. cracked a $3.4B crypto heist and Bitcoin’s anonymity

#172
post #32

The statute of limitation for wire fraud is 5 years. How did he get charged under that statute when he stole funds from Silk Road in 2012? Did they charge him for converting BCH into BTC in 2017? I tried to look up the case but couldn't find anything that shed a light on that.

> The statute of limitation for wire fraud is 5 years. How did he get charged under that statute when he stole funds from Silk Road in 2012? This is a very simplistic view and this mistake is made a lot. There are several reasons why the statute of limitations could either be longer than 5 years or not yet expired even though it is 5 years: - Tolling. This is when the suspect exits your jurisdiction, preventing you f…

Just wondering, did you write these bullet points with GPT? Some of the transition words sound GPT-ish.

Re: The U.S. cracked a $3.4B crypto heist and Bitcoin’s anonymity

#173
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's part of a plea agreement. In a plea agreement the defendant gives up certain rights in exchange for other sentencing considerations. They were worried they'd get a worse sentence at trial, so they plead to get a better deal. They didn't just give up their rights...

It sounds like they did give up their rights! Or else! Sorry, but there's no reading of it where a plea deal isn't threatening unreasonable punishment if you refuse to forfeit your rights.

Federal prosecutors have a 95% conviction rate. I'd take the bargain as well.

Re: The U.S. cracked a $3.4B crypto heist and Bitcoin’s anonymity

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah but zcash and monero are not bitcoin. and again, your transaction and back into bitcoin are completely open and trackable by anyone.

Sure, but that's due to Bitcoins implementation. There's nothing inherent to "open" ledgers that prevent them from providing anonymity. My point is: dunk on Bitcoin all you want. Just don't drag the general idea of permissionless, open ledgers into this mud fight.

I haven't dunked on bitcoin once. nor have i ever mentioned "permissionless"

Bitcoin is an open ledger. It was never designed for hiding transactions. I'm also not saying thats a bad thing. it just is what it is, and yes I hold some btc (albeit not much, just enough to experience it mostly)

Re: The U.S. cracked a $3.4B crypto heist and Bitcoin’s anonymity

#175
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's part of a plea agreement. In a plea agreement the defendant gives up certain rights in exchange for other sentencing considerations. They were worried they'd get a worse sentence at trial, so they plead to get a better deal. They didn't just give up their rights...

It sounds like they did give up their rights! Or else! Sorry, but there's no reading of it where a plea deal isn't threatening unreasonable punishment if you refuse to forfeit your rights.

I'm not a lawyer, but I've known people go through the (similar, in the UK), mill of prosecution and read/watched enough about some cases to get a sense of how it might play out behind the scenes.

Let's step back, and see if you still think this is "give up your right! Or else!"

The prosecutors are 50/50 on getting a conviction. If they win, they're sure they're going to see the defendant go to prison for, say, 10 years. If they lose, the defendant walks, and thanks to the fifth amendment (almost everywhere in the World has double jeopardy protection), unless substantial new evidence emerges, they'll never get to prosecute this individual again. They're pretty sure they have everything they'll ever find, so this is it.

The defendant and his legal team are 50/50 on getting an acquittal. If they win, it's over. If they don't, it's 10 years in prison which is pretty awful.

The trial is going to be expensive for both sides. The prosecution will work to get the odds in their favour, the defendant's legal team will be trying to figure out how to get it in their favour, and so on.

This process is expensive, and eventually the taxpayer is going to pay. Even if the proceeds from the crime have been recovered and sold, the money going into public funds is going to come right back out again to prosecute, and if the defendant has nothing and can't afford their own legal bills, the taxpayer is paying both sides.

Everybody - and I mean everybody - knows the defendant did what he did.

There are interviews that are barely credible, paper trails of assets moving, lots of evidence of obfuscation and trying to cover tracks, but there's confusion in the story about intent to commit a crime.

The judge might decide to throw it out on statute of limitations, a jury might look at the psych reports and think the kid seems nice and naive and not the criminal type, so let's believe his story.

It's a bit of a mess.

Neither side really fancies were this going because there is concern you're setting off a train of case law, too - as a prosecutor do you really want to test statute of limitations if the person wasn't "fleeing from justice", but just enjoying some money he came into? That defence lawyer really looks like he fancies his day in the Supreme Court...

Meanwhile, the clock - and publicly funded meter - is ticking.

Prosecutor approaches defence. "Plead guilty, we wrap this up, your guy gets 5 years instead of 10. Parole eligible at 3 years".

Defence retorts "2 years, suspended".

Prosecutor comes back "2 years, no suspension, no parole, but time served taken into account".

"Deal". The judge gets a call. He decides to make sure there is no risk of an appeal to make clear to the defendant in court that there are questions about statute of limitations that he would need to waive. Defendant agrees to waive his rights. They move to sentencing, the prosecutor asks for 24 months, the World moves on.

Everyone wins, even though the defendant goes to prison for a while. He's got 20% of the likely maximum penalty on an even money shot, which any gambler will tell you is superb "value".

The prosecutor has lost out in terms of seeing time served, but has got a conviction and saved the taxpayer many, many dollars.

The defendant didn't lose their rights. They looked at a 50/50 shot and decided they'd prefer 2 years guaranteed and get on with their life rather than take a 50% chance of 10 years.

Re: The U.S. cracked a $3.4B crypto heist and Bitcoin’s anonymity

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like they did give up their rights! Or else! Sorry, but there's no reading of it where a plea deal isn't threatening unreasonable punishment if you refuse to forfeit your rights.

I'm not a lawyer, but I've known people go through the (similar, in the UK), mill of prosecution and read/watched enough about some cases to get a sense of how it might play out behind the scenes. Let's step back, and see if you still think this is "give up your right! Or else!" The prosecutors are 50/50 on getting a conviction. If they win, they're sure they're going to see the defendant go to prison for, say, 10 ye…

In this case, it’s not 50/50.

It’s 83/17 where 83% is the “feds win.”

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/06/11/only-2-of-f...

Re: The U.S. cracked a $3.4B crypto heist and Bitcoin’s anonymity

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like they did give up their rights! Or else! Sorry, but there's no reading of it where a plea deal isn't threatening unreasonable punishment if you refuse to forfeit your rights.

Federal prosecutors have a 95% conviction rate. I'd take the bargain as well.

That includes the pleas though. It’s 83% for the cases that make it to trial. Still not great odds.

Re: The U.S. cracked a $3.4B crypto heist and Bitcoin’s anonymity

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This makes bitcoin sounds like a complicated technical reimplementation of hawala https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawala?wprov=sfla1

It actually is exactly like Hawala, and I've traded BTC in and out with networks that had roughly the same human topography. That was the original killer app or crypto. FWIW, we Jews (speaking for my family) mostly think the Rothschilds were pretty smart for working out the same type of system by placing a brother in each European capital and banking to kings, keeping a ledger instead of moving physical gold whenever…

[deleted]

Re: The U.S. cracked a $3.4B crypto heist and Bitcoin’s anonymity

#179
post #132
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Leaked" also includes cashing in or out of Bitcoin.

Or using a business which is required to report transactions, using a site which gets hacked, etc. I don’t think people sufficiently weight the risk of having a ledger which can’t be redacted – for example, I’d imagine there were a lot of people in Weimar Germany who did not think twice about donating to a synagogue or other organization which you would not want have wanted linked to your bank account a decade later.

This can be true for basically anything:

Maybe you own a car. In 10 years time a green authoritarian communist group starts to suspect anybody who owned a car, you are sent to a re-education facility.

Maybe you are environmentally conscious and bought solar panels. In ten years time an anti environmental fascist group comes to power. You are disappeared.

You make some negative comments about AI at a dinner party. The host has an Alexa home automation system. In ten years time when government is run by AI. You are assigned to sewer cleaning duty, a tragic accident happens.

Summarizing: It's not a really strong argument.

However, if you are doing things that can get you arrested today; That's another story, then you should be paranoid and not use bitcoin. Maybe Monero instead? Although, that's not watertight either.

Re: The U.S. cracked a $3.4B crypto heist and Bitcoin’s anonymity

#180
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parallel construction: if you do enough crime-adjacent things, the likelihood that you are also engaged in crime makes you interesting to law enforcement.

What is crime adjacent that isn't criminal activity?

Most famous right now?

Breonna Taylor (2020) - Louisville, Kentucky: Police officers entered the wrong apartment using a no-knock warrant, which led to the fatal shooting of Breonna Taylor, an emergency medical technician.

Eurie Stamps Sr. (2011) - Framingham, Massachusetts: Police raided the wrong apartment, and during the operation, an officer's gun "accidentally discharged," killing Eurie Stamps Sr., a 68-year-old grandfather.

As many have mentioned above, civil forfeiture cases for carrying cash are rare, but devastating to people who are originally from countries/cultures that don't trust banks or police.

And of course "swatting" such as https://www.courthousenews.com/texas-woman-sentenced-for-swa...

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