Live data from Hacker News

Replacing my best friends with an LLM trained on 500k group chat messages

izzy.co

251–260 of 371 posts

Re: Replacing my best friends with an LLM trained on 500k group chat messages

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Could Google, or any other company out there, build a digital copy of you that answers questions exactly the way you would? "Hey, we're going to cancel the interview- we found that you aren't a good culture fit here in 72% of our simulations and we don't think that's an acceptable risk." They kinda did - that's what GMail/Chat/Docs autosuggest does. You've got canned replies to e-mail, editors that complete your sen…

> because they hallucinate facts that aren't there and often misunderstand the context of facts. forgive my ignorance, but are the hallucinations always wrong to the same degree? Could an LLM be prompted with a question and then hallucinate a probable answer or is it just so far out in the weeds as to be worthless? I'm imagining an investigator with reams and reams of information about a murder case and suspect. Then…

> but are the hallucinations always wrong to the same degree

No, but yes largely because you're asking the same types of questions with the same rough parameters, so it'll make up roughly the same sort of thing (ie, citations) again.

The issue is that the LLM is trained to generate plausible words, not to recite which piece of training data is also the best source. If you want to make an app using "AI" you need to target what it can do well. If you want it to write citations you need to give it your list of references and tell it to use only those.

> I'm imagining an investigator with reams and reams of information about a murder case and suspect. Then, prompting an LLM trained on all the case data and social media history and anything else available about their main suspect, "where did so-and-so hide the body?". Would the response, being what's most probable based on the data, be completely worthless or would it be worth the investigator's time to check it out?

That specific question would produce results about like astrology, because unless the suspect actually wrote those words directly it'd be just as likely to hallucinate any other answer that fits the tone of the prompt.

But trying to think of where it would be helpful ... if you had something where the style was important, like matching some of their known, or writing similar style posts as bait, etc wouldn't require it to make up facts so it wouldn't.

And maybe there's an English suspect taunting police and using the AI could let an FBI agent help track them down by translating cockney slang, or something. Or explaining foreign idiom that they might have missed.

Anything where you just ask the AI what the answer is, is not realistic.

> Would the investigator have any idea if the response is worthless or not?

They'd have to know what types of things it can't answer, because it's not like it can be trusted when it can be shown to not have hallucinated, it's that it is not and can't be used as a information-recall-from-training tool and all such answers are suspect.

Re: Replacing my best friends with an LLM trained on 500k group chat messages

#252
post #49

While I love all these stories of turning your friends and loved ones into chat bots so you can talk to them forever, my brain immediately took a much darker turn because of course it did. How many emails, text messages, hangouts/gchat messages, etc, does Google have of you right now? And as part of their agreement, they can do pretty much whatever they like with those, can't they? Could Google, or any other company…

some 10y+(?) ago, i had an idea of building a model/graph of one's own notions (what is "red"?) and how do they relate to one another, and to others' such graphs - from your perspective... Back then abandoned it because looked like impossibly-huge to build, semantical-web was only leftovers-and-promises.. But a year later, this same thing you are talking about, occured to me and then i abandoned it completely. Crosse…

Lena is by qntm, but was featured on Charles' blog. It's very good.

Re: Replacing my best friends with an LLM trained on 500k group chat messages

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Could Google, or any other company out there, build a digital copy of you that answers questions exactly the way you would? "Hey, we're going to cancel the interview- we found that you aren't a good culture fit here in 72% of our simulations and we don't think that's an acceptable risk." They kinda did - that's what GMail/Chat/Docs autosuggest does. You've got canned replies to e-mail, editors that complete your sen…

I completely agree with you about them failing to be accurate for the various reasons you've explained (hallucinating, limited social conventions, etc). Unfortunately, I've heard enough people believe the hype that this is actually "synthesizing sentience into the machine" or some other buzz speak. I have met researchers of AI at credible universities who believe this kind of thing, completely oblivious to how ChatGP…

> I have met researchers of AI at credible universities who believe this kind of thing, completely oblivious to how ChatGPT or other models actually work.

Either they are not AI researchers or you can't evaluate them, because it is impossible they don't know how GPT works if they work in AI.

GPT works better when it runs in a loop, as an agent, and when it has tools. Maybe this is what triggered the enthusiasm.

Re: Replacing my best friends with an LLM trained on 500k group chat messages

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do think intelligence is something more than data storage and retrieval. I believe it is adaptive behavior thinking about what data I have, what I could obtain, and how to store/retrieve it. I could be wrong, but that's my hypothesis. We humans don't simply use a fixed model, we're retraining ourselves rapidly thousands of times a day. On top of that, we seem to be perceiving the training, input, and responses as w…

I understand better now, thanks for the explanation. I have some experience in the other direction: everyone around me is hyperskeptical and throwing around the “stochastic parrot”. Meanwhile completely ignoring how awesome this is, what the potential of the whole field is. Like it’s cool to be the “one that sees the truth”. I see this like a 70’s computer. In and of itself not that earth shattering, but man.. the po…

Oh, yeah, I hear you on that as well. It's still a really cool tool! Probabilistic algorithms and other types of decision layering was mostly theory when I was in University. Seeing it go from a "niche class for smart math students" to breaking headlines all over the world is definitely pretty wild.

You are correct that nothing like this was even possible a couple decades ago. From a pure progress and innovation perspective, this is pretty incredible.

I can be skeptical, one of my favourite quotes is "they were so preoccupied with whether they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should". I like to protect innovation from pitfalls is all. Maybe that makes me too skeptical, sorry if that affected my wording.

Re: Replacing my best friends with an LLM trained on 500k group chat messages

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do think intelligence is something more than data storage and retrieval. I believe it is adaptive behavior thinking about what data I have, what I could obtain, and how to store/retrieve it. I could be wrong, but that's my hypothesis. We humans don't simply use a fixed model, we're retraining ourselves rapidly thousands of times a day. On top of that, we seem to be perceiving the training, input, and responses as w…

Going from "oh my goodness, this is intelligent" fade to "oh, it's just predicting text responses" Eventually your father will reach the third stage: "Uh, wait, that's all we do." You will then have to pry open the next niche in your god-of-the-gaps reasoning. The advent of GPT has forced me to face an uncomfortable (yet somehow liberating) fact: we're just plain not that special.

Yes, wholly agree. The special parts are in language. Both humans and AI are massively relying on language. No wonder AIs can spontaneously solve so many tasks. The secret is in that trillion training tokens, not in the neural architecture. Any neural net will work, even RNNs work (RWKV). People are still hung up on the "next token prediction" paradigm and completely forget the training corpus. It reflects a huge slice of our mental life.

People and LLMs are just fertile land where language can make a home and multiply. But it comes from far away and travels far beyond us. It is a self replicator and an evolutionary process.

Re: Replacing my best friends with an LLM trained on 500k group chat messages

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do think intelligence is something more than data storage and retrieval. I believe it is adaptive behavior thinking about what data I have, what I could obtain, and how to store/retrieve it. I could be wrong, but that's my hypothesis. We humans don't simply use a fixed model, we're retraining ourselves rapidly thousands of times a day. On top of that, we seem to be perceiving the training, input, and responses as w…

Going from "oh my goodness, this is intelligent" fade to "oh, it's just predicting text responses" Eventually your father will reach the third stage: "Uh, wait, that's all we do." You will then have to pry open the next niche in your god-of-the-gaps reasoning. The advent of GPT has forced me to face an uncomfortable (yet somehow liberating) fact: we're just plain not that special.

Haha, I think he's already at that point with respect to humanity. All my childhood he impressed upon us that we're not special, that only hard work and dedication will get you somewhere in life.

It's a small leap to apply that to general intelligence, I would think.

You are right though, we are coming closer and closer to deciphering the machinations of our psyche's. One day we'll know fully what it is that makes us tick. When we do, it will seem obvious and boring, just like all the other profound developments of our time.

Re: Replacing my best friends with an LLM trained on 500k group chat messages

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If a company is going to snoop in your personal data to get insights about you, they'd just do it directly. Hiring managers would scroll through your e-mails and make judgment calls based on their content. This is like saying, "look, no one would be daft enough to draw a graph, they'd just count all the data points and make a decision." You're missing two critical things: (1) time/effort (2) legal loophole. A targe…

> And, until/unless there are good laws in place, it provides a fantastic chess-knight leap over existing privacy legislation. "Oh, no we don't read your emails, no that would be a violation; we simply talk to an LLM that read your emails. Your privacy is intact! You-prime says hi!" That seems as poor as saying, "We didn't read your emails -- we read a copy of your email after removing all vowels!"

Most certainly, yes, it's as poor as saying that.

But we live in distressed times, and the law is not as sane and sober as it once was. (Take, for example, the Tiktok congressional hearing; the wildly overbroad RESTRICT act; etc.)

If the people making and enforcing the laws are as clueless and as partisan as they by-all-accounts now are, what gives you hope that, somehow, some reasonable judge will set a reasonable precedent? What gives you hope that someone will pass a bill that has enough foresight to stave off non-obvious and emergent uses for AI?

This is not the timeline where things continue to make sense.

Re: Replacing my best friends with an LLM trained on 500k group chat messages

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is a point I often make that we don't need AGI for AI to already become very disturbing in its potential use. But we don't need AI or LLMs at all for the above scenario. Companies don't currently pry into your e-mails to make hiring decisions, but they could (ignoring laws) do it if they wanted. No LLM or AI necessary. So why would the existence of AIs or LLMs change that? If they wanted to use the content of yo…

Because it's now cheaper and more cost-effective, and if they can get away with it, saves them tons of money. Note: I don't think companies are likely to do this, but being able to do this without AI is not sufficient reason to dismiss the possibility. It's the same reason people who wouldn't steal DVDs from a store would pirate movies online. Much harder to get caught and easier to do, so this new way of watching mo…

I feel like the backlash against Stable Diffusion had the opposite change in visibility. It revealed that thousands of people wanted a way to produce unique art in the styles of living artists, where some of those people might have gone to either their Patreon or a piracy site that scraped Patreon instead. Either way they're not as visible if they're only consuming the result.

To some artists, AI generated images from their styles would amount to "productive piracy." Unlike torrenting the act is often out in the open since users tend to share the results online. I'm not sure if this phenomenon has happened before; with teenagers pirating Photoshop it's impossible to tell from a glance if the output is from a pirated version.

Re: Replacing my best friends with an LLM trained on 500k group chat messages

#260
post #49

While I love all these stories of turning your friends and loved ones into chat bots so you can talk to them forever, my brain immediately took a much darker turn because of course it did. How many emails, text messages, hangouts/gchat messages, etc, does Google have of you right now? And as part of their agreement, they can do pretty much whatever they like with those, can't they? Could Google, or any other company…

> Could Google, or any other company out there, build a digital copy of you that answers questions exactly the way you would? "Hey, we're going to cancel the interview- we found that you aren't a good culture fit here in 72% of our simulations and we don't think that's an acceptable risk." If a company is going to snoop in your personal data to get insights about you, they'd just do it directly. Hiring managers would…

> If a company is going to snoop in your personal data to get insights about you, they'd just do it directly. Hiring managers would scroll through your e-mails and make judgment calls based on their content.

Maybe, but LLMs have incredibly intricate connections between all the different parameters in the model. For instance, perhaps someone who does mundane things X, Y, Z, also turns out to be racist. An LLM can build a connection between X, Y, Z whereas a recruiter could not. An LLM could also be used to standardize responses among candidates. E.g. a recruiter could tune an LLM on a candidate and then ask "What do you think about other races? Please pick one of the four following options: ...". A recruiter wouldn't even be necessary. This could all be part of an automated prescreening process.

Post reply on HN