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Facebook Is Using You

nytimes.com

21–30 of 66 posts

Re: Facebook Is Using You

#21
post #18

Question: why isn't my data's copyright owned by me? I should have the same rights over my data (my searches, my browsing history, relationships, etc.) as an artist has over his creations. And they (companies that use this information or trade in it) should have to pay me to use it.

Not to sound pedantic, but in this case the "user" data wouldn't have existed without the product, so it's not exactly like an artist's work. It's not surprising it is a challenge to find a traditional parallel for the new complexities of this century.

Re: Facebook Is Using You

#23
post #18

Question: why isn't my data's copyright owned by me? I should have the same rights over my data (my searches, my browsing history, relationships, etc.) as an artist has over his creations. And they (companies that use this information or trade in it) should have to pay me to use it.

Anything (sufficiently creative) you create is automatically copyrighted by you, but according to Facebook's terms of service,

you grant us a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license to use any IP content that you post on or in connection with Facebook

Though it's an interesting point; the Facebook ToS are a pretty weak way of effecting a copyright license, even worse than a click-through EULA.

I'm guessing they wouldn't be dumb enough to do so, but it'd be interesting if they tried to exploit that license grant to its maximum potential. For example, a number of musicians, and even major labels, post music videos on Facebook. If we take the terms at face value, that means Facebook gains a transferable license to use that music video, worldwide and royalty-free. So they could, for example, sublicense the video to be used in a Levi's television advertisement, without the original artist being paid--- if this license really does what it claims to do.

Re: Facebook Is Using You

#24
I think this is a terrible headline that masks an interesting philosophical debate. Especially at this community, we feel we intuitively understand that we get the convenience and social value from Facebook for $0, and we pay in our personal data they use to serve up advertisements. That to me is hardly newsworthy and a relatively uninteresting piece.

But- there is an interesting question in what is an appropriate use of our personal data w.r.t credit ratings, financial decisions, etc... Just like there are anti-discrimination laws that prevent mortgage servicers from altering policies based on race, perhaps there should be other walls to keep separate how our data can be used financially.

This is a question the NY Times should've posed instead of this clearly linkbaity uninteresting headline.

Re: Facebook Is Using You

#25
post #18

Question: why isn't my data's copyright owned by me? I should have the same rights over my data (my searches, my browsing history, relationships, etc.) as an artist has over his creations. And they (companies that use this information or trade in it) should have to pay me to use it.

they do just not in a monetary form, but by letting you use their services for free. it cost more to run, for example Facebook site, than $1.

that's true. but then again, how much would their service be worth without the user's generated content?

Re: Facebook Is Using You

#26
post #18

Question: why isn't my data's copyright owned by me? I should have the same rights over my data (my searches, my browsing history, relationships, etc.) as an artist has over his creations. And they (companies that use this information or trade in it) should have to pay me to use it.

I doubt that even the complete record of your online activities would be found by a court to be copyrightable. While it might represent a lot of effort, the fact that the record exists is ancillary to the reason you keep adding to that record. The fact that you don't have access to most of what facebook collects about you puts a snag in the argument that you're doing it for creative purposes.

Copyright for databases or collections of data is variable, depending on the legal framework where you live.

In the EU, there is some protection but it requires either creativity going into the compilation, or the work done to create the compilation must exceed a certain threshold:

  http://www.esa.int/esaMI/Intellectual_Property_Rights/SEM2M2M26WD_0.html
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database_Directive
In the U.S., there is no protection for a compilation of data just because you put work into the compilation:

  http://www.bitlaw.com/source/cases/copyright/feist.html
In any case, the basic pieces of information about you are not copyrightable, even in the EU. They have adopted privacy laws to deal with personal data.

There's been some discussion on HN about copyright of public transit schedules, I believe in Australia and/or India.

Re: Facebook Is Using You

#27

I think this is a terrible headline that masks an interesting philosophical debate. Especially at this community, we feel we intuitively understand that we get the convenience and social value from Facebook for $0, and we pay in our personal data they use to serve up advertisements. That to me is hardly newsworthy and a relatively uninteresting piece. But- there is an interesting question in what is an appropriate us…

This was also my immediate reaction, agreed. I wrote an article a while ago that talks about a similar thing, but concludes more along those lines - facebook offers us the service for free, and as far as we know they do not sell our personal data. Until they do, we don't need to worry.

http://carrotblog.com/facebook-is-watching-you/

Re: Facebook Is Using You

#28
post #19
post #4

This is what Freedombox is for (also Diaspora). Freedombox is one of the few projects I make time to contribute to. I'm surprised it isn't one of the more popular projects among this community. Anyway, here are some links and background if you aren't familiar with it. From http://freedomboxfoundation.org and http://freedomboxfoundation.org/learn What is FreedomBox? Email and telecommunications that protects privacy a…

I follow a few high profile tech news source, but I never heard of Freedombox. One major worry I have about decentralized systems is crackers. It's hard enough to secure centralized systems using proprietary code behind firewalls managed by an army of experts. How can a decentralized system possibly avoid becoming a 0day distributed botnet?

> It's hard enough to secure centralized systems using proprietary code behind firewalls managed by an army of experts. How can a decentralized system possibly avoid becoming a 0day distributed botnet?

I do not understand your concern.

Centralized systems are easier to crack, not harder. Proprietary code may or may not be easier to crack, but I'd lean towards easier. Distributed systems do not require you to not have firewalls. Distributed systems do not require you to not have experts managing them. Nodes of a distributed system do not have to obey the commands of other nodes or have a central control mechanism.

How would a decentralized system ever become a 0day botnet?

Re: Facebook Is Using You

#29
Its a very good article although the title should include Google, American Express and NebuAd. I am aware of Facebook, Google and Cerdit card companies using personal data to perform business functions. However I am quite alarmed by the incident mentioned in the article where six ISPs sold personal data. I have never heard about it before, and am wondering how common is this practice.

Re: Facebook Is Using You

#30
It IS using you and if you aren't smart enough to figure that out then you're living in a bubble universe.

FB is an awful, monstrous growth on society. I'm sorry if this sounds like an over-reaction, but its pure, undiluted evil. Its reach is just way far too pervasive and the tracking on non-members is just plain illegal as far as I'm concerned. Unfortunately, people seem to have come to believe that society couldn't exist without it.

I'm (vainly probably) hoping that the flotation will, ultimately, be its downfall. Even existing toothless Regulation might scupper its share value enough to make it an obvious bubble investment -- and people might wake the fuck up and start to remember the real value of money, people and privacy again.

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