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New NASA Director Swears Oath on Carl Sagan’s ‘Pale Blue Dot’ Instead of Bible

independent.co.uk

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Re: New NASA Director Swears Oath on Carl Sagan’s ‘Pale Blue Dot’ Instead of Bible

#261

Post by klodolph »

Beltiras wrote: post #240
klodolph wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You said, “the Skygod that the Christians pretend to worship on Sundays”. This comment is uncivil and does not belong here. That behavior is not acceptable and please do not behave this way in the future. To be clear, the comment denigrates Christians, by (among other things) saying that they pretend to worship.

If you don't call out the hypocrites, how would they ever know they are wrong? Did I cast them in a negative light? Yes. Do they ever read that book of theirs? No. Once in a while you see a shining example of compassion and generosity born from church activities like this one: https://twitter.com/MorePerfectUS/status/1645867657697153046 That's the true Christian faith at work. Sadly it's the exception.

Your comment seems to be based on some kind of misconception about what religion is. Like, you seem to base your comments on the idea that the Christian bible is the sole foundation for Christian beliefs and practices. There are two problems with that—it’s not true in the first place, and even if it were true, it is not straightforward to interpret the bible.

If you are unwilling to put in the effort to learn what Christianity is, then you should also be unwilling to make comments about whether people are practicing it correctly.

Re: New NASA Director Swears Oath on Carl Sagan’s ‘Pale Blue Dot’ Instead of Bible

#262

Post by 908B64B197 »

neom wrote: post #3

"While many officeholders across the country have placed their hands on books by Dr Suess, the US Constitution, copies of the Quran or other documents, this seems to be the first time someone was sworn in on a book by Sagan." This caught my attention, wondering who got sworn in on a Dr. Suess book?? "A newly elected single mother of two wanted her kids to walk away from her swearing-in with an empowering message. So…

To me this is one of the greatest things about this country: it's foundation was granted to the people by the people, not some foreign, non-elected embodiment of a divine authority.

That someone could just as much be sworn in with a Quran, a Dr. Suess book or the US Constitution itself is just something exceptionally American and profoundly inspiring. E Pluribus Unum.

Re: New NASA Director Swears Oath on Carl Sagan’s ‘Pale Blue Dot’ Instead of Bible

#263

Post by hajile »

WeylandYutani wrote: post #21
bitcharmer wrote: post #2

It's high time. There's no place for superstition in science

How did that quote go? "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". When I was a child the creation myth from the Bible reminded me of aliens.

Let's kick the can down the road of "who created the aliens?" and simply consider the alternatives for "who created us?"

On the one hand, you have ALL major religions agree that powerful beings who came to earth (or created Earth) and populated it with humans.

On the other hand, you have the "scientific" alternative. This is where you have several different asteroids all exactly the right size to have proto-atmospheres. Each atmosphere is different because the fundamental building blocks of life can't all form in the same atmosphere. They all develop their specific part of the equation. Now, they all happen to crash together in the exact same place at the exact same time. Their material is thrown together onto yet another asteroid with a different atmosphere sufficient to sustain life. Those materials happen to collide just right so they form a primitive lifeform. Finally, this meteor happens to crash on Earth (instead of any other planet) without generating enough heat or impact force to destroy the fledgling lifeforms and it happens to land on a part of Earth where the lifeforms won't be killed off by the surroundings.

What are the odds all those asteroids form? That every one has different atmospheres? That the all hit the exact location at the same time? That the constituent parts aren't destroyed in this crash? That the parts randomly come together to form life? that this happens close to a solar system? That the solar system has the right star and planets to support that life? That the life isn't destroyed?

Now put that up against a powerful alien (which could have formed under different universal rules without such astronomical odds) implanting life on a planet?

Re: New NASA Director Swears Oath on Carl Sagan’s ‘Pale Blue Dot’ Instead of Bible

#264

Post by ToValueFunfetti »

Beltiras wrote: post #240
klodolph wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You said, “the Skygod that the Christians pretend to worship on Sundays”. This comment is uncivil and does not belong here. That behavior is not acceptable and please do not behave this way in the future. To be clear, the comment denigrates Christians, by (among other things) saying that they pretend to worship.

If you don't call out the hypocrites, how would they ever know they are wrong? Did I cast them in a negative light? Yes. Do they ever read that book of theirs? No. Once in a while you see a shining example of compassion and generosity born from church activities like this one: https://twitter.com/MorePerfectUS/status/1645867657697153046 That's the true Christian faith at work. Sadly it's the exception.

If they're only pretending to believe, they already know they're wrong.

If you sincerely do just want to communicate this to them, I recommend using "God" instead of "Skygod". It doesn't change the message and it makes it sound more like you're speaking in good faith.

Re: New NASA Director Swears Oath on Carl Sagan’s ‘Pale Blue Dot’ Instead of Bible

#265

Post by timbit42 »

areoform wrote: post #123
lukego wrote: post #91

I have always held Carl Sagan in high esteem without actually having read his books. I was taken aback to watch some Cosmos with my kids last week though, the Neil deGrasse Tyson edition. It came across as overt quasi-religious indoctrination to me. Makes me wonder if science has become a religion in the US. Tear down the Catholic church, build up the universe as a new drop-in replacement God with infallible science…

> I have always held Carl Sagan in high esteem without actually having read his books. Here's a tiny excerpt from Pale Blue Dot. This excerpt elevates the book to high art, Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confid…

Spoken by Carl Sagan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO5FwsblpT8

Re: New NASA Director Swears Oath on Carl Sagan’s ‘Pale Blue Dot’ Instead of Bible

#266

Post by EthanHeilman »

somenameforme wrote: post #258
tialaramex wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most Christian theology holds that God is the present age is not going smite people for breaking such oaths. Or to put it another way. Since it is very obvious that people routinely break oaths, Modern Christians have come up with the rationalization that God chooses not to smite them, rather than accept the more likely explanation that God can't smite them for the same reason Superman couldn't prevent the 11 Septe…

While I am not religious myself, it is useful to actually learn about something before mocking it. Beyond the self evident reason for this, a fun is you might be surprised where else it shows up. In Christianity, mankind is taken as inherently sinful (even from the point of birth - hence baby baptismals) and is unable to avoid sinning. The path to 'salvation' is to accept ones own nature as a sinner and inability to…

People attempting to improve themselves and the world must face the fact that improvement necessarily requires accepting that one is imperfect, since if one was perfect one could not improve.

> Design patterns show up across all "industries."

Strong agree, and I would argue that even if antiracism philosophy did not come from christianity it would likely arrive at a similar point due to the nature of the problem. Any sort of hill climbing algorithm that does not assume original sin is very unlikely to be effective.

I do think it is worth focusing on what one is doing right as well as what one is doing wrong. Turning a bad behavior (-1) into a good behavior (+1) is a 2 point improvement, whereas just improving a good behavior (+1) is only an increase of 1. However it is often easier psychologically to improve what you do well then to face your weaknesses and biases.

Re: New NASA Director Swears Oath on Carl Sagan’s ‘Pale Blue Dot’ Instead of Bible

#267

Post by JohnFen »

noirscape wrote: post #95
tescocles wrote: post #9

Is there any actual strict requirement that you have to swear over a document of some kind? I'd have thought swearing over the bible is a stand-in for swearing "before God", and that God would ultimately be your reckoner should you break your oath. If you don't have that meaning behind the oath, what is the point in using a book at all unless it's something meaningful like the constitution of your country, as another…

The ultimate usefulness of swearing before a God (if you believe in one) isn't that relevant. The psychological reason we tend to request it is because of something far simpler: it reminds us of our convictions. There was a study about a decade ago about this by some social scientists. They made 10 people swear on the ten commandments before making a test intended to check for their honesty, they made another group o…

Is it really being reminded, or is it the public declaration of the oath and your acceptance of it that makes it effective?

It's much like reciting wedding vows. You are making a very public promise, with a real threat of social ostracization if you break it.

Re: New NASA Director Swears Oath on Carl Sagan’s ‘Pale Blue Dot’ Instead of Bible

#268

Post by Grustaf »

gobrewers14 wrote: post #237
Grustaf wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that’s not what the word means. Religion and superstition are different concepts. This is a linguistic fact, regardless of your personal beliefs.

> Religion and superstition are different concepts. Please point to the part in my original response where I said religion and superstition are the same concept. I said believing in a god is superstition. Which it is. Superstition (n): A belief, practice, or rite irrationally maintained by ignorance of the laws of nature or by faith in magic or chance.

Sure, you can use superstition as a slur for things you don’t believe in.

But if you want to use the word in its scientific meaning, then Christianity, or Islam or whatever religion, is not a superstition.

Re: New NASA Director Swears Oath on Carl Sagan’s ‘Pale Blue Dot’ Instead of Bible

#269

Post by gobrewers14 »

Grustaf wrote: post #207
defrost wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Superstitions are literally beliefs and practices about things supernatural. Supernatural is a term attributed to non-physical entities, such as angels, demons, gods, and spirits. It also includes claimed abilities embodied in or provided by such beings, including magic, telekinesis, levitation, precognition, and extrasensory perception. One persons superstition is frequently anothers religion.

Yes, superstitions relate to supernatural things. Religion does too, in a way. That doesn’t mean it’s the same thing. Language is a lot more complex than that. And sure, you might derogatorily refer to someone’s religion as a superstition, just like I might call someone a “pagan” even if he’s strictly speaking just a heretic. But in reality these are all precise terms with different meanings. To be a bit more precise…

I touch (swear an oath and break it to) a rock (a god) and I receive luck (anger).

Both are superstitions. The rock example is actually less superstitious because rocks actually exist. There is zero evidence gods exist.

Re: New NASA Director Swears Oath on Carl Sagan’s ‘Pale Blue Dot’ Instead of Bible

#270

Post by throw7 »

908B64B197 wrote: post #262
neom wrote: post #3

"While many officeholders across the country have placed their hands on books by Dr Suess, the US Constitution, copies of the Quran or other documents, this seems to be the first time someone was sworn in on a book by Sagan." This caught my attention, wondering who got sworn in on a Dr. Suess book?? "A newly elected single mother of two wanted her kids to walk away from her swearing-in with an empowering message. So…

To me this is one of the greatest things about this country: it's foundation was granted to the people by the people, not some foreign, non-elected embodiment of a divine authority. That someone could just as much be sworn in with a Quran, a Dr. Suess book or the US Constitution itself is just something exceptionally American and profoundly inspiring. E Pluribus Unum.

I think the declaration of independence was the spirit and the constitution was the implementation. Some nuance must be paid here to the divine.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"

I think the free exercise clause is the greatest and most important freedom we have.

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