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ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

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Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#151
post #41

The OP states “the reason I tell all my CTO coachees they need everything in writing from their boss in their contract, a new boss will probably only honor what is written down, not spoken promises.” However, he seems to have ignored his own advice and not understood the ManyCam EULA. “… This license is in effect until one of the parties terminates the license. You may terminate the license by no longer using the Man…

The law deals with what is reasonable and 'reasonable expectations' a whole lot. From my IANAL perspective it is not a reasonable expectation that the average end user is proficient enough in the law to understand the implications of the legalese in the EULA. EULAs are thrust upon us, rarely read, and rarer still read by those with enough legal expertise to fully understand the implications of the text and to 'know what they don't know'

Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#152

Happy Scale, a weight tracking app I really enjoy, had the opposite example: I bought a full license for some bucks some years ago, and later they decided to switch to a subscription based model to ensure funding. Instead of going the "hey, here is a new version of the app, you need to subscribe now", they explicitly included a thank-you note directed at everyone that bought the "Premium In-App Purchase" at the begin…

I had the same experience with Remarkable Tablet. Since i got the tablet as a early adopter, they gave me unlimited cloud connectivity to the tablet.

I don't understand why someone buying a high end e-reader like this one should be charged for basic cloud connectivity, so I'm really happy to have it for free.

Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#153
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's more of a manufacturer choice. The pixel and top-tier samsung lines both get 6 years of security updates

Security updates is carrying a lot of weight here. People are probably expecting feature updates, which is still not a guarantee.

I believe feature updates are for 3 years or 2 generations.

Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#155
post #41

The OP states “the reason I tell all my CTO coachees they need everything in writing from their boss in their contract, a new boss will probably only honor what is written down, not spoken promises.” However, he seems to have ignored his own advice and not understood the ManyCam EULA. “… This license is in effect until one of the parties terminates the license. You may terminate the license by no longer using the Man…

The EULA may or may not be enforceable, but even if it is they're still liable for the real damages incurred by the false advertising causing people to make that purchase.

It's kind of like if you buy a car as-is but the seller goes out of their way to knowingly lie about the condition of the car -- saying it's fit to drive when the brake lines have a leak or something. If there's any evidence then the courts will usually side with the buyer.

Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the developer side I feel like this type of license makes the most sense to me too. After selling a desktop app with a license like that for a little while though, I’ve also unfortunately realized that not everyone understands it. I had a number of customers referring to it as a “subscription” (which it wasn’t, because it didn’t auto-renew and you could keep using the last version forever) or “lifetime” (which i…

I think the easiest way to communicate it is to just regularly increment your version number and then have people be able to buy version X. Like Photoshop, and really most software used to be sold.

Games still do it correctly. If you buy Spacewars you'll get patches and updates for a while, but you won't get Spacewars 2.

Unfortunately, it is evident that the pay-once monetization model has been corrupted too. Many AAA game companies sell pre-orders and otherwise bet on people buying their games mostly on marketing and promises. Over the last decade in the AAA industry, marketing has steadily pushed out quality game production as means to make money. The games are hyped beyond what publishers know will be delivered, and in some cases, far beyond what's possible to deliver within the release schedule.

Now it's common for AAA publishers to mostly show "pre-alpha" footage (often this is a lie and at least beta footage is shown) or "not in-engine" cinematics before release. Demos are a thing of the past and gameplay from reviewers is embargoed until just before release. Sometimes embargo terms don't allow showing bugs.

So, overall, everything related to monetization of software seems to be corrupted by psychological manipulation and greed. And not just in games or sold software packages, also with SaaS subscriptions and social media. It's not impossible that more and more consumers will give up dealing with this nonsense in the future. We already see large numbers of people choosing not to engage in social media due to the emotional manipulation and echo chambering to squeeze out more advertising revenue out of them. And because I am in the games industry, I see signs of players simply abandoning AAA games for these manipulative practices and returning to indies. Time will come for SaaS and manipulative software licenses.

If consumer trust is further tarnished, the future will either involve returning to where we've been — clear and simple one time software fees and clear trial/demo periods, or it will involve something more insidious than what we have. In either case, the pricing models we have now are starting to tire consumers out.

Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#157
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it could be an easyish case for small claims. Bought software at X date, used it for Y years, expected to use it for a further Z years in professional career, and now you can only use it for 2 further years, instead of Z. Get atleast a refund for the years that you won't be able to use.

Cost of lifetime license: $39 Time used so far: 4 years Time remaining with new license: 2 years Time lost due to license change: 20 years Damages awarded to the plaintiff: $30

Court fees: $70

Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#158
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> lifetime licenses are dishonest (e.g. company cannot work for free, so their funded is based on unlimited growth, which isn't realistic for most). I don’t really know what you mean by “dishonest”, that seems like a slightly hyperbolic word here. If someone pays for a lifetime license the company isn’t working for free nor necessarily assuming unlimited growth, they just have to understand and correctly price the av…

I'd say it's dishonest in the sense that a company knows the probabilities are such that they can't actually ever truly support a lifetime license, so it's a lie from the start. At the end of the day, companies usually go out of business or else sell themselves to another company within a certain number of years. And a new company (like in this case) may change their mind about lifetime licenses, because it's a total…

Ugh, please don’t make it worse and escalate to “lie”. You’re blaming the wrong source, and have it backwards IMO. The previous owners weren’t lying, the new owners are the ones to blame for breaking a pre-existing contract with the company. Breaking this contract might not be legal, and in that sense they may be only the ones lying.

Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#159

Visicom really pumped the ManyCam lifetime upsells. I found 15 emails over an 18 month period in 2020-2021 with them pitching lifetime (which I eventually bought). An example email text they used is: > Upgrade now to ManyCam Studio Lifetime for only $39 and get access to all the future versions and updates, forever! What they presented to the user was unequivocal. In a just world, the company who sold ManyCam (Visico…

That pumping might have been seen as a warning that the company either does not intend to support the product much longer, or has doubts that it will be able to do so. And while I agree with your final sentence, unless Visicom was careless, the actual license agreement, which supersedes the promotional claim, will have permitted what happened and so essentially revoked the offer. Caveat emptor!

Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#160

The problem with such betrayal is, that companies names are all but smoke and mirrors by now. The reputational damage should be tracking with the leading employees. One customer betrayal travels along with the manager who caused it, to whatever company s/he touches. No matter how the company is named, no matter how much branding, one linked in api roll call later you know what you got.

This, forcing exposure of personal skin in the corporate game, would fix an untold number of issues.

This would be fine in a world that where it’s generally considered OK to fail. Unfortunately, this is not the world we live in, given the wide publicity reach that would be required for your idea to be effective.

(Similarly, in a much better world a politician who had changed their mind or did not have an informed opinion would need to say that out loud; but when I teach—smart, motivated young adults!—I have to make them unlearn so much fear of being wrong and shame of not understanding things that I can’t see admitting ignorance working out in real-world politics.)

In narrower circles, this could probably work. Amazon is already forced to pay newly-hired programmers above market rate, I hear,—would a former Amazon executive need to?

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