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New NASA Director Swears Oath on Carl Sagan’s ‘Pale Blue Dot’ Instead of Bible

independent.co.uk

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Re: New NASA Director Swears Oath on Carl Sagan’s ‘Pale Blue Dot’ Instead of Bible

#191

Post by drummojg »

shaftoe444 wrote: post #115
Technotroll wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really like the use of the word "thine" here. In the Scandinavian languages it's translated to "din" (singular) or "dine" (plural) (with an ee sound like in leek, instead of ay like in fine dining). It means yours. In the Scandinavian languages "min" (also with ee pronunciation) means mine. So the thing can either be thine or mine. It's very familiar language to us Nordic types, albeit archaic.

Very interesting. My understanding is that even when the KJV was being written these pronouns were becoming archaic. If it wasn't for the Bible and Shakespeare I wonder how many English speakers would recognise them.

It's, for lack of a better term, "High English." It is meant to sound grand, and thus the grander old style was used. Which is entirely appropriate; IIRC the original Hebrew uses grander language for poetic passages & the words of the LORD.

Re: New NASA Director Swears Oath on Carl Sagan’s ‘Pale Blue Dot’ Instead of Bible

#192

Post by weinzierl »

neom wrote: post #3

"While many officeholders across the country have placed their hands on books by Dr Suess, the US Constitution, copies of the Quran or other documents, this seems to be the first time someone was sworn in on a book by Sagan." This caught my attention, wondering who got sworn in on a Dr. Suess book?? "A newly elected single mother of two wanted her kids to walk away from her swearing-in with an empowering message. So…

If I can swear on any document I'd prefer an issue of MAD magazine. That would do more justice to the absurdity of the matter.

Re: New NASA Director Swears Oath on Carl Sagan’s ‘Pale Blue Dot’ Instead of Bible

#193

Post by Beltiras »

docandrew wrote: post #157
Beltiras wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose that's an inaccurate choice of words. I meant to juxtapose something meaningful to someone in stead of the Skygod that the Christians pretend to worship on Sundays.

Please don’t denigrate others’ faith here.

I'm saying it's mostly performative. I can't denigrate something that actually doesn't exist.

Re: New NASA Director Swears Oath on Carl Sagan’s ‘Pale Blue Dot’ Instead of Bible

#194

Post by kube-system »

Grustaf wrote: post #35
bitcharmer wrote: post #2

It's high time. There's no place for superstition in science

Placing your hand on a book and uttering words is the essence of being “superstitious”, at least if you aren’t religious.

Rituals can have a social purpose beyond superstition: e.g. signaling.

Re: New NASA Director Swears Oath on Carl Sagan’s ‘Pale Blue Dot’ Instead of Bible

#195

Post by leroy-is-here »

kaitai wrote: post #177

This discussion is fascinating, anthropologically speaking. Some observations: * Many commenters seem to be holding to this weird idea that if you don't believe God will smite you, you will not be able to behave responsibly, give your word in a trustworthy manner, etc. If there's not a supernatural enforcer then there are no consequences to lying/breaking your oath. Interestingly, it looks to me that even atheists ar…

Humans are just the total sum of their actions. Actions beget being and so rituals beget a practiced being. Humans practice rituals every day without even thinking about it. Ever sat in your chair and immediately wanted a cold one?

Re: New NASA Director Swears Oath on Carl Sagan’s ‘Pale Blue Dot’ Instead of Bible

#196

Post by hajile »

noirscape wrote: post #95
tescocles wrote: post #9

Is there any actual strict requirement that you have to swear over a document of some kind? I'd have thought swearing over the bible is a stand-in for swearing "before God", and that God would ultimately be your reckoner should you break your oath. If you don't have that meaning behind the oath, what is the point in using a book at all unless it's something meaningful like the constitution of your country, as another…

The ultimate usefulness of swearing before a God (if you believe in one) isn't that relevant. The psychological reason we tend to request it is because of something far simpler: it reminds us of our convictions. There was a study about a decade ago about this by some social scientists. They made 10 people swear on the ten commandments before making a test intended to check for their honesty, they made another group o…

That's a huge conclusion about personalities from a selection of just 30 people.

What happens when you start crossing religious, educational, economic, and cultural boundaries? There's absolutely no way to cover those things with fewer than a few thousand people.

Re: New NASA Director Swears Oath on Carl Sagan’s ‘Pale Blue Dot’ Instead of Bible

#197

Post by drummojg »

Jedd wrote: post #147
Technotroll wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ultimate source of consequence is your own conscience, though sadly some people don't have one. But some people who otherwise lack a conscience might still be fearful of God, and so that's why the Bible was seen as a great document to make people swear upon, once upon a time. Though, while the fear of punishment might trump your inclination to do evil, it does not really make you a fundamentally better person. So…

> ... his fundamental ideas about The Golden Rule (i.e. that you should treat others as you would like to be treated yourself), Would you clarify the fundamental phrasing please? The Golden Rule existed long before the Jesus mythology was created - I gather Buddha and Confucius (ostensibly original attribution lands to him) were describing this fairly self-evident social policy several centuries BCE.

I have an old sampler religious text and inside the cover is The Golden Rule in every major religion--I want to say there are ten or a dozen of them, from Zoroaster to the Bhagavad Gita.

Re: New NASA Director Swears Oath on Carl Sagan’s ‘Pale Blue Dot’ Instead of Bible

#198

Post by hereme888 »

courseofaction wrote: post #188
ammojamo wrote: post #34

Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform to the Lord what you have sworn.’ But I say to you, Do not take an oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, or by the earth, for it is his footstool, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. And do not take an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black. Let what y…

https://www.openbible.info/topics/thou_shalt_not_kill It is utterly forbidden to kill in the bible. 200 years after Christ, the Roman army was "Christian". Hmm.

That's not true. What is forbidden is murder.

Re: New NASA Director Swears Oath on Carl Sagan’s ‘Pale Blue Dot’ Instead of Bible

#199

Post by kube-system »

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #49
sourcecodeplz wrote: post #33

I don't get it. The point on swearing on the bible is that God (karma, the universe, a higher power) will judge/punish you if you act evil. This is just silly / virtue signaling.

What is silly is that laicism is still not a thing in US government in 2023. Your founding fathers actually wanted a government without religion. Nobody is telling you to not hold your beliefs, just don't impose them on others. > The point on swearing on the bible is that God (karma, the universe, a higher power) will judge/punish you if you act evil Humans can swear and have morals and ethics without fear of punishm…

> Your founding fathers actually wanted a government without religion.

They wanted a government where the government did not interfere with the religious beliefs of people.

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