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Virtual Threads Arrive in JDK 21, Ushering a New Era of Concurrency

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Re: Virtual Threads Arrive in JDK 21, Ushering a New Era of Concurrency

#11

Post by ape4 »

TheDong wrote: post #10

So with this, the last thing Go had going for it over Java is gone, right? Java has an obviously better type system, while Java originated the billion dollar mistake, Java also at this point has much better practices around handling nulls than Go, Java's jars are more portable than go's binaries, Java's GC performs better, Java has a more mature ecosystem and more libraries... Java has better IDE support and comparab…

ALGOL originated null

Re: Virtual Threads Arrive in JDK 21, Ushering a New Era of Concurrency

#13

Post by hintymad »

TheDong wrote: post #10

So with this, the last thing Go had going for it over Java is gone, right? Java has an obviously better type system, while Java originated the billion dollar mistake, Java also at this point has much better practices around handling nulls than Go, Java's jars are more portable than go's binaries, Java's GC performs better, Java has a more mature ecosystem and more libraries... Java has better IDE support and comparab…

My experience in small companies told me that younger generation didn’t choose Go because Go is objectively better than Java, but because they actively hate Java for it being out of fashion.

Re: Virtual Threads Arrive in JDK 21, Ushering a New Era of Concurrency

#14

Post by marginalia_nu »

TheDong wrote: post #10

So with this, the last thing Go had going for it over Java is gone, right? Java has an obviously better type system, while Java originated the billion dollar mistake, Java also at this point has much better practices around handling nulls than Go, Java's jars are more portable than go's binaries, Java's GC performs better, Java has a more mature ecosystem and more libraries... Java has better IDE support and comparab…

I think there are still a few changes in the pipe before Java is quite what it could be in terms of performance.

Project Valhalla, and the foreign function and memory APIs in particular.

Re: Virtual Threads Arrive in JDK 21, Ushering a New Era of Concurrency

#15

Post by quanticle »

TheDong wrote: post #10

So with this, the last thing Go had going for it over Java is gone, right? Java has an obviously better type system, while Java originated the billion dollar mistake, Java also at this point has much better practices around handling nulls than Go, Java's jars are more portable than go's binaries, Java's GC performs better, Java has a more mature ecosystem and more libraries... Java has better IDE support and comparab…

    while Java originated the billion dollar mistake
By the "billion dollar mistake", are you referring to null references [1]? But null references were introduced in 1965 in Algol, by Tony Hoare. They long predate Java.

[1]: https://www.infoq.com/presentations/Null-References-The-Bill...

Re: Virtual Threads Arrive in JDK 21, Ushering a New Era of Concurrency

#16

Post by TheDong »

ape4 wrote: post #11
TheDong wrote: post #10

So with this, the last thing Go had going for it over Java is gone, right? Java has an obviously better type system, while Java originated the billion dollar mistake, Java also at this point has much better practices around handling nulls than Go, Java's jars are more portable than go's binaries, Java's GC performs better, Java has a more mature ecosystem and more libraries... Java has better IDE support and comparab…

ALGOL originated null

In ALGOL it was more like a thousand dollar mistake. It didn't become a billion dollars until Java caused NPEs on 3 billion devices

Re: Virtual Threads Arrive in JDK 21, Ushering a New Era of Concurrency

#18

Post by marginalia_nu »

seanparsons wrote: post #12

Well it's not really ushering it in, given that this is what Haskell has had for a decade at least.

Well, yeah. Haskell is a research language, while Java's stated design philosophy from day one has been to be conservative with adding new features, and judiciously add new features after they've proven useful in other languages.

Re: Virtual Threads Arrive in JDK 21, Ushering a New Era of Concurrency

#19

Post by the-smug-one »

TheDong wrote: post #10

So with this, the last thing Go had going for it over Java is gone, right? Java has an obviously better type system, while Java originated the billion dollar mistake, Java also at this point has much better practices around handling nulls than Go, Java's jars are more portable than go's binaries, Java's GC performs better, Java has a more mature ecosystem and more libraries... Java has better IDE support and comparab…

> So with this, the last thing Go had going for it over Java is gone, right?

No. Go does containerized microservices better because of its lower memory footprint. If you can use GraalVM then that might not matter.

Re: Virtual Threads Arrive in JDK 21, Ushering a New Era of Concurrency

#20

Post by marginalia_nu »

TheDong wrote: post #16
ape4 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ALGOL originated null

In ALGOL it was more like a thousand dollar mistake. It didn't become a billion dollars until Java caused NPEs on 3 billion devices

Java's got like the safest most soft-punching NPEs in any language that's got them though. They're so safe you can use them as flow control devices.
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