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The Free Software Foundation is dying

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Re: The Free Software Foundation is dying

#181

Post by vrtx0 »

ghusto wrote: post #164
vrtx0 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My perspective as an openly gay male with 20+ years of experience in software security, systems programming and distributed databases: Tech companies tend to be extremely supportive and welcoming of talent from diverse backgrounds. My proudest technical accomplishments have always been with a diverse group of peers, including straight white males who champion diversity. These people are heroes to me, but it’s not lik…

Yes, you're way off base :D But it's a welcome miss, because I found your experience interesting anyway, and relevant. My first point was that if it were true that "technical and social leadership" indeed was compatible and even "well-aligned", then why is it we don't see that in people in leadership positions? Where are they? Then I pre-empted the tired argument that we don't see them because they've been oppressed…

Ah, interesting… I think the discrepancy is where we’re looking. FWIW, I started my career at AOL-Time Warner in Florida in the late ‘90s. Management was all “good ol’ boys”. Definitely no role models anywhere. (I was closeted at the time).

I’ve been fortunate in some ways, but nothing came easy to me. I didn’t come from money, didn’t graduate college, didn’t know anyone… I moved to LA just to escape that toxic environment, and found a good job developing embedded systems in 2 weeks. I’m an autodidact, so my only qualifications were a portfolio of projects, including an old TI DSP project and a pre-Wi-Fi embedded wireless device. Over the next ~15 years, I kept moving up in rank and salary, changed jobs a few times, received patents, contributed to papers, and was lucky enough to be mentored by some truly amazing people…

I’ve always felt success is a combination of hard work and luck, even for those “born into it”. If true, that likely means for everyone like me, there are a dozen or so who didn’t make it, or never took a chance.

And yeah, being gay still isn’t fun. Maybe it made it easier to take a chance moving 2600 miles from home though — I figured I’d be dead within a year if I stayed where I was…

Hope that doesn’t sound like some kind of humble brag; I’ve obviously had my share of failures and loss.. That said, given how lucky I feel at this point (I’m in my 40s), I couldn’t understand how you’ve never met a positive role model… But I do now, and it was naive of me to extrapolate my experience into the general population… And I’m not suggesting I worked harder or did anything to deserve my good fortune… FWIW, I’m really sorry you (and likely most people) haven’t known the same men and women I’ve been lucky enough to know…

Really hope that doesn’t sound like some arrogant humblebrag, or diminish your hard work!

Re: The Free Software Foundation is dying

#182

Post by amno »

dralley wrote: post #171
amno wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What significant, tangible accomplishments does Stallmann have in the past 15 years? You believe you will never grow old? Do you wish your family and friends to turn back on you because you are old and don't have the same energy as you had when you were 20? The question is how the landscape would look like today and if there even would be "open source" in the broader sense as we see it today, with permissive licens…

What is more important, the mission of Free Software, or making him President for life?

President is Geoffrey Knauth; not RMS; you should have probably looked up the facts before sending unnecessary comment: https://www.fsf.org/about/staff-and-board

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoffrey_Knauth

Nobody claims RMS should be president for life, or anyone else, I just dislike the rhetoric the Op uses.

Re: The Free Software Foundation is dying

#184

Post by michaelcampbell »

PaulHoule wrote: post #8

Are they even coming out with any new software? I remember GNU being big in the 1990s and I know a new version of gawk came out recently, but it seems the center of gravity of “free software” (as in beer) has moved in the direction of the Apache foundation (so many data-related projects it is a “big data” problem to keep track of them all), Github, etc.

Emacs 29 has just issued a pre-release. Using it now.

Re: The Free Software Foundation is dying

#185

Post by amno »

dale_glass wrote: post #172
amno wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What significant, tangible accomplishments does Stallmann have in the past 15 years? You believe you will never grow old? Do you wish your family and friends to turn back on you because you are old and don't have the same energy as you had when you were 20? The question is how the landscape would look like today and if there even would be "open source" in the broader sense as we see it today, with permissive licens…

The FSF is a public organization with a mission to change the world. That's literally the purpose of its existence, not to be Stallman's group of friends. Also every day it fails to be effective makes fulfilling its mission harder, because the rest of the world doesn't wait for it to catch up. Sure, we can recognize that Stallman had very significant achievements that merit recognition, and accept that not everyone c…

> not to be Stallman's group of friends

Nobody said that, either.

> That he did a good job before doesn't mean there's not a job now that still needs doing well.

And you personally know he can't help doing this job further on, and he is on his own entire board in FSF? You are free to nominate and show the world what you can do!

Re: The Free Software Foundation is dying

#186

Post by PaulHoule »

michaelcampbell wrote: post #184
PaulHoule wrote: post #8

Are they even coming out with any new software? I remember GNU being big in the 1990s and I know a new version of gawk came out recently, but it seems the center of gravity of “free software” (as in beer) has moved in the direction of the Apache foundation (so many data-related projects it is a “big data” problem to keep track of them all), Github, etc.

Emacs 29 has just issued a pre-release. Using it now.

I switched to vim a long time ago but I am definitely impressed with the changes in each new major version of emacs including this one.

Re: The Free Software Foundation is dying

#187

Post by dale_glass »

amno wrote: post #185
dale_glass wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The FSF is a public organization with a mission to change the world. That's literally the purpose of its existence, not to be Stallman's group of friends. Also every day it fails to be effective makes fulfilling its mission harder, because the rest of the world doesn't wait for it to catch up. Sure, we can recognize that Stallman had very significant achievements that merit recognition, and accept that not everyone c…

> not to be Stallman's group of friends Nobody said that, either. > That he did a good job before doesn't mean there's not a job now that still needs doing well. And you personally know he can't help doing this job further on, and he is on his own entire board in FSF? You are free to nominate and show the world what you can do!

> Nobody said that, either.

I was referencing your "Do you wish your family and friends to turn back on you" part.

> And you personally know he can't help doing this job further on, and he is on his own entire board in FSF?

It looks to me like he's got an outsized influence in the FSF and even if he might be a board member among 7. But that is a good point, it may be the case that the problem is bigger than just Stallman.

> You are free to nominate and show the world what you can do!

I'm not an US citizen nor have any interest in being one, employed full time, and on a non-profit already, so my agenda is full.

That said given how things have gone the last few decades, I do think I could do a better job at this point. I don't doubt there are people far better suited than I, but I'm pretty confident I could do better than the current state.

Re: The Free Software Foundation is dying

#188

Post by dang »

bheadmaster wrote: post #158
dang wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've banned this account for flamewar. Not what this site is for. HN is for curious conversation—which rules out $X-fanaticism for pretty much any X. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

The (fairly short) comment history doesn't really indicate flaming, IMHO. Having strong opinions while having the word "fanaticism" on their profile doesn't seem like a rule violation. If I may, I'd ask you to refrain from such bans until the poster proves a chronic flamer. At least give them a warning first (unless you already did, and they continued, in which case please ignore this comment).

I get why you'd post this because in a way it's a borderline call. In another way it isn't though. If an account shows up with a name like that, only posting on that topic, and showing clear signs of flamewar*, the outcome is unfortunately pretty predictable. I felt like it would be better to just nip the problem in the bud and be clear up front—though I can see that my explanation presupposed too much that it didn't make explicit.

* The combination of "women, people of color, minorities, and other people who have never played a major part in contributing, spreading or practicing free software ethos" with "people of weak character" points clearly in a flamewar direction—a hellish one, in fact.

Re: The Free Software Foundation is dying

#189

Post by dang »

GNUfanaticism wrote: post #169
dang wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've banned this account for flamewar. Not what this site is for. HN is for curious conversation—which rules out $X-fanaticism for pretty much any X. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

>HN is for curious conversation—which rules out $X-fanaticism for pretty much any X. My name is irrelevant to the contents of this post. I believe I said nothing wrong, nor did I intend to start a flamewar or oppose diversity. Promoting free software over proprietary software will be a reoccurring theme to my posts but it looks like that ended already if my privileges are revoked.

I'm sorry I didn't explain this more clearly when I posted earlier—I was moderating in haste, which is never a good idea.

The username is relevant because it suggests a single-purpose account and those are not allowed on HN: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que.... Pre-existing agendas are antithetical to the curious conversation we want here—which, at its best, meanders through whatever catches a person's fancy.

> nor did I intend to start a flamewar or oppose diversity

If you say that wasn't your intent, I believe you! but your comment pointed in exactly that direction—enough that we got emails complaining about it. It's fine with me if people disagree about Stallman and whatnot but the ideological battle aspect is just poison. (And yes it was in the original article too.)

Re: The Free Software Foundation is dying

#190

Post by erik_seaberg »

philistine wrote: post #147
jmclnx wrote: post #4

>It’s time for Richard Stallman to go I was expecting to see this, there is nothing more corporations would like more then to see him gone. Then they can take full control of the FSF, already they have their hands in it. So far many of his predictions have come true and there are a few more that seems to be on their way to happening. What FSF should do is work stop the move to secure boot. Already there are Intel Lap…

I'm endlessly fascinated by people who have one major problem (inability to run unsigned code) and assign blame to another thing (secure boot). We're talking about technology here! The problem is one of implementation. And Apple, of all companies, has offered an implementation solution. Their ARM chips in Macs can boot an OS with a fully-vetted chain of trust on the same drive as a completely untrusted Linux distro.…

Signed code is great iff the user can sign code and choose whose signatures are valid.
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