Ask HN: Is the job market brutal? or is it just me? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Is the job market brutal? or is it just me?

#61

Post by eschneider » Tue, Apr 11, 2023, 6:50 PM UTC

1differential wrote: post #18

It's extremely brutal. I'm a staff engineer and a tech lead of ~12 engineers, I've either been getting low ball offers, or ending the last round of interviews to get no offer. I've employed but have been looking for a job for ~6 months with terrible results. I graduated from a T5 school, have worked at a "unicorn" startup, and have an average of 3 years at every role. My conversion rate is a little better - 3 intervi…

I interviewed from Jan-Feb pretty much as a full time job. Lots of applications out, maybe 5-10 well-researched applications a day which yielded one or two interviews a day for that time period. Three went to offers and I'm pretty sure I could have closed a few more if I hadn't taken the job I did.

I've done everything from UI to cloud to embedded stuff, but I was mostly focusing on embedded roles thinking that a) I like that sort of work and b) the competition wouldn't be as bad, though Amazon did layoff a lot of device folk in my geographic area.

Salary expectations seemed to be a big thing at companies, and I'd expect that FAANG folks looking to find that sort of compensation at smaller companies are likely to be disappointed or possibly even weeded out at the start.

That said, some companies are definitely low-balling but most seem willing to pay around 'market rate' for folks. I took a slight step-down in pay, but I like what I'm working on and the people and the companies that we offering more money we're offering enough more to overcome that.

Re: Ask HN: Is the job market brutal? or is it just me?

#62

Post by moosedev » Tue, Apr 11, 2023, 6:50 PM UTC

gumballindie wrote: post #41

moosedev wrote: post #6

Not just you. I would guess, optimistically, I’m averaging a 5% conversion rate of applications to recruiter chats/“stage 0 interviews”. That is, ~95% of applications yield silence or a generic email rejection without any human contact. ~15 YOE, FAANG experience, usually only applying to roles I feel I’m at least a halfway good fit for (i.e. not a complete scattergun approach). I’m (financially) fine for now, which i…

> FAANG experience Probably the reason. Most companies need people with experience in more than just one layer of a stack. Hard times for those who cant own a full stack, unfortunately.

Would you reconsider the stereotyping if I told you I’m a generalist who has worked up and down many kinds of stacks?

It’s proving hard to sell generalist-ness to recruiters this round. They often lock on to the most recent specific domain I worked in. If anything, they seem to be filtering for people with very specific experience in a specific layer of a specific stacks - because they are getting so many applications, they can be very choosy.

Re: Ask HN: Is the job market brutal? or is it just me?

#63

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Apr 11, 2023, 6:50 PM UTC

haasted wrote: post #53

gumballindie wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> FAANG experience Probably the reason. Most companies need people with experience in more than just one layer of a stack. Hard times for those who cant own a full stack, unfortunately.

FAANG is shorthand for Facebook, Amazon, Apple, Netflix and Google, not a specific tech stack.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Is the job market brutal? or is it just me?

#64

Post by howmayiannoyyou » Tue, Apr 11, 2023, 6:51 PM UTC

wunderland wrote: post #21

gautamdivgi wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are a US citizen try defense companies. Edit: I should have explained my reasoning. They have a much smaller eligible applicant pool - US citizens who are eligible for security clearance. Because of this they’re continuously looking for good talent.

Damn this is the most depressing comment in this whole comments section

Yeah, would be great to live in a magic land, where the US has no competitors, adversaries and sworn enemies. But this isn't magic land. US defense contractors are very much for profit and deliver a product that deters or kills some very bad people, more and more discriminating between collateral damage and intended targets - far more than can be said of Russian in Ukraine, for example.

There's an entire generation in this country that thinks the US is safe, a villain even. How wrong they are, and how much they stand to lose if the US loses.

Re: Ask HN: Is the job market brutal? or is it just me?

#65

Post by hkt » Tue, Apr 11, 2023, 6:51 PM UTC

haasted wrote: post #53

gumballindie wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> FAANG experience Probably the reason. Most companies need people with experience in more than just one layer of a stack. Hard times for those who cant own a full stack, unfortunately.

FAANG is shorthand for Facebook, Amazon, Apple, Netflix and Google, not a specific tech stack.

The point is that an engineer at a FAANG likely owns a miniscule fraction of the stack, whatever that may be. The average company doesn't need or want someone who is so deeply specialised.

Re: Ask HN: Is the job market brutal? or is it just me?

#66

Post by sph » Tue, Apr 11, 2023, 6:51 PM UTC

gumballindie wrote: post #41

moosedev wrote: post #6

Not just you. I would guess, optimistically, I’m averaging a 5% conversion rate of applications to recruiter chats/“stage 0 interviews”. That is, ~95% of applications yield silence or a generic email rejection without any human contact. ~15 YOE, FAANG experience, usually only applying to roles I feel I’m at least a halfway good fit for (i.e. not a complete scattergun approach). I’m (financially) fine for now, which i…

> FAANG experience Probably the reason. Most companies need people with experience in more than just one layer of a stack. Hard times for those who cant own a full stack, unfortunately.

I am very good at all layers of the stack (except maybe just decent on the frontend), yet it's hard to stand out when any open position has 500+ resumes applying for it.

My self esteem and confidence is at an all time low. It is soul-crushing to have had a brilliant career and get barely 1% response rate. I can't only blame it on my CV being terrible (went through half a dozen iterations already)

Re: Ask HN: Is the job market brutal? or is it just me?

#67

Post by skizm » Tue, Apr 11, 2023, 6:51 PM UTC

Might help if folks post locations of where they're looking? I get a general vibe (with no hard data) that the NYC area has no shortage of work for SWEs, but other cities might not? I'd be curious to hear other folks' thoughts on their locations.

Re: Ask HN: Is the job market brutal? or is it just me?

#68

Post by uncletammy » Tue, Apr 11, 2023, 6:52 PM UTC

oh_sigh wrote: post #9

150 resumes sounds like you're just shotgunning them out there willy nilly. Maybe take a more nuanced approach and work your network a little bit. Your network could even just be people you've worked with in the past who respect you and enjoyed working with you, doesn't need to be people you actively keep up with.

It's hard to keep morale up after spending multiple hours composing a few thoughtful, "good fit" applications, just to be auto-rejected immediately upon submission without them even being seen by a human. I don't even bother anymore unless I have someone on the other end who's willing to usher my application straight to a hiring manager.

Re: Ask HN: Is the job market brutal? or is it just me?

#69

Post by gautamdivgi » Tue, Apr 11, 2023, 6:52 PM UTC

moosedev wrote: post #46

gautamdivgi wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are a US citizen try defense companies. Edit: I should have explained my reasoning. They have a much smaller eligible applicant pool - US citizens who are eligible for security clearance. Because of this they’re continuously looking for good talent.

I’m not a citizen, but I’m holding out for a pure “tech” company for now anyway for various reasons. Thanks for the hint anyway - perhaps someone else will benefit.

That's why posted it. Most people ignore them but they do have good opportunities and generally don't have issues with ageism that exists. They are very invested in tech though. Mostly devices and embedded systems from what I know.

Re: Ask HN: Is the job market brutal? or is it just me?

#70

Post by eatonphil » Tue, Apr 11, 2023, 6:52 PM UTC

haasted wrote: post #53

gumballindie wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> FAANG experience Probably the reason. Most companies need people with experience in more than just one layer of a stack. Hard times for those who cant own a full stack, unfortunately.

FAANG is shorthand for Facebook, Amazon, Apple, Netflix and Google, not a specific tech stack.

I took their meaning to be that at any large company you work in a pretty niche area because there are so many other employees. You get used to "not my problem" which isn't an attitude that makes sense in small companies.

The problem though is assuming that the majority of jobs are with small companies. Although 99% of US businesses are SMBs, only 45% of employees in the US (from quick Google checks) work for SMBs. So the majority of jobs are at large companies and I don't think FAANG would be so much a penalty (except for that you might have compensation expectations that don't fit these companies).