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Make Something Wonderful – Steve Jobs in his own words

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Re: Make Something Wonderful – Steve Jobs in his own words

#61

Post by keiferski »

rrgok wrote: post #58

This may feel a little depressing, but I would like to hear the HN community's thoughts on this. Every time I hear about making progress or creating something beautiful, the first thing that comes to mind is: for how long? As humans, do we think about how long we are going to chase the ever-moving goal post of progress? Do we have a ballpark idea of it? Or are we moving like a dog chasing its own tail, going in circl…

I think you might find some solace in the concept of wabi-sabi. An oversimplification is that it’s an aesthetics of things that are temporary, a guide to appreciating beautiful things that inevitably decay.

Re: Make Something Wonderful – Steve Jobs in his own words

#62

Post by sangnoir »

steveBK123 wrote: post #34
wmeredith wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And it seems everybody is wondering why such a strategy could work and deliver actual profits. Survivorship bias. Jobs himself was almost Apple's undoing multiple times because he cared more about the product than profits.

The flip side of this is Bezos who cared about profits but not the product, generally speaking. He was a great operator clearly, but no product vision. Probably why we all use Amazon but none of us love doing so. If someone else figured out delivery & pricing (Walmart is trying with Jet), we'll all slowly defect. There's no lock in. Kindle is an adequate product that has sporadic iterative improvements and occasional…

> If someone else figured out delivery & pricing

That is the product and it's clear Bezos & crew obsessed on getting commerce to be as frictionless as possible & earning customer loyalty. Dealing with Amazon as a customer is still 2x better than any other online retailer in my experience.

Re: Make Something Wonderful – Steve Jobs in his own words

#63

Post by jrowen »

naremu wrote: post #3

It's amazing how much "mystique" is assigned to a man who's success can probably be at least 75% attributed to just being an enthusiast about his own products in a business world where it's usually limited to the founding members. How many CEOs, product managers and the like have been caught promoting their own brand with a "tweeted from iPhone" tagline. Probably "efficient business people", but literally won't touch…

What's amazing to me is how some people continually try to minimize him. The proof is in the pudding. He assembled the top talent to produce the best products that pushed our experience with technology forward. Very few people are able to do that. Any time someone says "oh he just," it says more about their own insecurity than him. Yeah he had a lot of help, yeah he had personal relationship issues, he's not a god, but I don't understand why some people refuse to appreciate what he accomplished. It's a limiting "hater" mindset. (This is not necessarily entirely directed at the above post [which did kind of strangely come around]).

Re: Make Something Wonderful – Steve Jobs in his own words

#64

Post by mbesto »

naremu wrote: post #3

It's amazing how much "mystique" is assigned to a man who's success can probably be at least 75% attributed to just being an enthusiast about his own products in a business world where it's usually limited to the founding members. How many CEOs, product managers and the like have been caught promoting their own brand with a "tweeted from iPhone" tagline. Probably "efficient business people", but literally won't touch…

> which got scratched by his keys in his pocket, which Jobs found entirely unacceptable.

Which required a technological innovation that may or may not existed at the time. This is like saying "autonomous cars can't ever hit a human being". Well, no shit, that would be great, but the technology isn't there yet.

It's well and good to romanticize Steve Jobs, but "assigning single factor causation to the output of complex adaptive system is a triumph of hope over experience"...his obsession with product design was certainly a factor, but it wasn't the ONLY factor.

Re: Make Something Wonderful – Steve Jobs in his own words

#65

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

jrowen wrote: post #63
naremu wrote: post #3

It's amazing how much "mystique" is assigned to a man who's success can probably be at least 75% attributed to just being an enthusiast about his own products in a business world where it's usually limited to the founding members. How many CEOs, product managers and the like have been caught promoting their own brand with a "tweeted from iPhone" tagline. Probably "efficient business people", but literally won't touch…

What's amazing to me is how some people continually try to minimize him. The proof is in the pudding. He assembled the top talent to produce the best products that pushed our experience with technology forward. Very few people are able to do that. Any time someone says "oh he just," it says more about their own insecurity than him. Yeah he had a lot of help, yeah he had personal relationship issues, he's not a god, b…

I don't think I can agree with this take.

> He assembled the top talent to produce the best products that pushed our experience with technology forward.

Assembling top talent is something a lot of people could do, what made Jobs special is that he did that while still actually giving a shit about the quality of the product his company produced. "Oh, he just" is less a way of dismissing jobs than it is a way of saying "hey assholes, you could be more like Jobs if you just actually gave a fuck".

Re: Make Something Wonderful – Steve Jobs in his own words

#66

Post by musictubes »

I was working at an Apple Store when Jobs died. People started to leave flowers, management put up huge sheets of paper in the windows and people wrote all sorts of heartfelt messages. What other CEO’s passing would engender that kind of sentiment? Those people didn’t just prefer Apple equipment, they loved it.

Jobs tapped into something deep with his ethos and product vision. He had an uncanny knack of understanding what appeals to many people and bringing them to market. Arguably he also had a knack for forming teams that bought into his vision and were able to execute at a high level. I think that Tim Cook has said that Steve’s most lasting legacy is Apple itself.

I’m looking forward to reading this book. A founder that had deep convictions, the business chops to make it profitable (eventually), and the luck/skill/determination to inevitably launch at exactly the right time has a story to tell.

Re: Make Something Wonderful – Steve Jobs in his own words

#67

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

theaussiestew wrote: post #5
naremu wrote: post #3

It's amazing how much "mystique" is assigned to a man who's success can probably be at least 75% attributed to just being an enthusiast about his own products in a business world where it's usually limited to the founding members. How many CEOs, product managers and the like have been caught promoting their own brand with a "tweeted from iPhone" tagline. Probably "efficient business people", but literally won't touch…

But the thing is, we all tolerate things which are sheer crap, if viewed through a different set of lenses. For example, you probably tolerate many things that I personally would consider rubbish, and vice versa. You say it’s trivial to have good taste, but it’s not trivial at all. My point is, many of us would have thought the plastic screen was fine, and that wasn’t because we weren’t “enthusiastic” about our own p…

> Consider this website, the outdated interface is held up as some kind of filter against an “eternal September” of an influx of “normies” who can’t see past the terrible UI for the apparently sheer brilliance and sophistication of the content on this site, but to me, it’s just garish.

I certainly don't hold it up for any gatekeeping nonsense, and frankly I despise that anyone even uses the word "normies". What I like about this site's UI is that it places function over form and isn't built on a pile of trendy garbage and designed by people who never use it.

Re: Make Something Wonderful – Steve Jobs in his own words

#68

Post by sangnoir »

kitsunesoba wrote: post #19
theaussiestew wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the thing is, we all tolerate things which are sheer crap, if viewed through a different set of lenses. For example, you probably tolerate many things that I personally would consider rubbish, and vice versa. You say it’s trivial to have good taste, but it’s not trivial at all. My point is, many of us would have thought the plastic screen was fine, and that wasn’t because we weren’t “enthusiastic” about our own p…

> This attitudes extends to so many different areas, especially in technology, where hostility to good taste and style is often seen as something to be lauded, with the idea that somehow, technical brilliance and design chops are inversely correlated and can’t co-exist. There's a fair chance I've misread the situation, but I don't think it's good taste and style is what's being pushed back against in these situations…

> Most people I think aren't opposed to well designed UI that incorporates a central tenant of Jobs', which is that design is functionality and not purely visual

Jobs loved skeuomorpism, which isn't inherently bad, but having iOS UI elements reproduce the stitching from seats in his private jet skews close to "purely visual". Also, the (early) iOS date picker was unforgivable - I assume Jobs was aware of its existence & approved of its rubber-stamp-like, user-hostile skeuomorphic design

Re: Make Something Wonderful – Steve Jobs in his own words

#69

Post by filoleg »

iamerroragent wrote: post #59
filoleg wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a thing for taking advice in specific fields from people who are doing great in those fields and appear to have something useful to say on related topics, and not taking advice from them on topics they don't seem to be knowledgeable about or make poor decisions in relation to. I would definitely love to listen to Steve Jobs's advice on topics of building products or companies. Not that they should be accepted…

"I hope they strongly reconsider their life choices." Well unfortunately Steve waited too long to do that.

Yes, but it doesn't mean that because Steve was foolish when it came to taking care of his health, all the other things he wasn't foolish about are suddenly worthless of being listened to. And it isn't like he was publicly promoting his healthcare advice in any way either.

Re: Make Something Wonderful – Steve Jobs in his own words

#70

Post by filoleg »

JohnFen wrote: post #57
filoleg wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Good taste" is just another phrase that means "style that I prefer". There is no such thing as an objective ideal of good taste. Strongly disagreed overall. I agree that there are plenty of situations where it is indeed just a matter of preference and is very subjective. But it is disingenous to claim that there is never such a thing as an objectively better preference. Literally the specific example we are talkin…

"Taste" refers to aesthetics. The plastic screen example isn't related to taste, it's related to functionality.

I would say it is a good taste to consider this a problem important enough to address it, while all you competitors are aware of it and just don't think of it as something in need of a solution.
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