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Make Something Wonderful – Steve Jobs in his own words

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Re: Make Something Wonderful – Steve Jobs in his own words

#51

Post by filoleg »

JohnFen wrote: post #43
theaussiestew wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the thing is, we all tolerate things which are sheer crap, if viewed through a different set of lenses. For example, you probably tolerate many things that I personally would consider rubbish, and vice versa. You say it’s trivial to have good taste, but it’s not trivial at all. My point is, many of us would have thought the plastic screen was fine, and that wasn’t because we weren’t “enthusiastic” about our own p…

> You say it’s trivial to have good taste, but it’s not trivial at all. I 100% agree. "Good taste" is just another phrase that means "style that I prefer". There is no such thing as an objective ideal of good taste. It's all about human preferences, and that gets very complicated very quickly.

> "Good taste" is just another phrase that means "style that I prefer". There is no such thing as an objective ideal of good taste.

Strongly disagreed overall. I agree that there are plenty of situations where it is indeed just a matter of preference and is very subjective. But it is disingenous to claim that there is never such a thing as an objectively better preference.

Literally the specific example we are talking about in this thread - plastic prototype iPhone screens and keys scratching them. Is it really not objectively better to have a screen made of materials that don't get scratched by keys in your pocket easily? I don't think it is subjective at all.

Re: Make Something Wonderful – Steve Jobs in his own words

#52

Post by iamerroragent »

peteradio wrote: post #48
iamerroragent wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked hand-in-hand with technologly static religiously devout Amish. They listen to their doctor.

So would you take advice from Amish person about iphones?

How is that appropriately analogous?

Do you go to your doctor for advice about iPhones?

Ironically I did learn how to get a dead engine to start via an Amish mechanic (he ran a business repairing generators for his community)

Re: Make Something Wonderful – Steve Jobs in his own words

#53

Post by chrisweekly »

kitsunesoba wrote: post #19
theaussiestew wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the thing is, we all tolerate things which are sheer crap, if viewed through a different set of lenses. For example, you probably tolerate many things that I personally would consider rubbish, and vice versa. You say it’s trivial to have good taste, but it’s not trivial at all. My point is, many of us would have thought the plastic screen was fine, and that wasn’t because we weren’t “enthusiastic” about our own p…

> This attitudes extends to so many different areas, especially in technology, where hostility to good taste and style is often seen as something to be lauded, with the idea that somehow, technical brilliance and design chops are inversely correlated and can’t co-exist. There's a fair chance I've misread the situation, but I don't think it's good taste and style is what's being pushed back against in these situations…

Good points.

Nit / correction (for helpfulness not pedantry)

tenant: renter or occupant vs tenet: guiding principle

Re: Make Something Wonderful – Steve Jobs in his own words

#54

Post by keiferski »

I still remember exactly where I was when Steve Jobs died. I think it was because at that moment, I had a realization about him: that there was no other person in recent memory who made such an impact on the everyday lives of people. He wasn’t some grand political figure that uplifted millions with inspiring rhetoric or an athlete that had achieved some amazing physical goal.

But every single day, pretty much everywhere in the world, a sizable portion of humanity uses a device that he ultimately brought into being. And I thought that was pretty cool.

Re: Make Something Wonderful – Steve Jobs in his own words

#55

Post by nicenewtemp84 »

iamerroragent wrote: post #26

I have a thing for not taking advice from someone that doesn't listen to their doctor.

I dated a doctor for all of medical school and through that became friends with their social circle and keep in touch with many now doctors. Imo, most of them are barely capable at doing their own speciality correctly day in and day out due to burnout, and are almost completely worthless at anything just slightly outside their exact preferred area of expertise inside their own speciality.

Re: Make Something Wonderful – Steve Jobs in his own words

#56

Post by filoleg »

iamerroragent wrote: post #26

I have a thing for not taking advice from someone that doesn't listen to their doctor.

I have a thing for taking advice in specific fields from people who are doing great in those fields and appear to have something useful to say on related topics, and not taking advice from them on topics they don't seem to be knowledgeable about or make poor decisions in relation to.

I would definitely love to listen to Steve Jobs's advice on topics of building products or companies. Not that they should be accepted as the ultimate truth, but i would be interested to hear his takes on it nonetheless.

If someone seriously considers listening to medical advice from someone who has zero education, experience, and expertise in the field, as well as going against what the actual experts say (with very predictable results in the end), I hope they strongly reconsider their life choices.

EDIT: the last paragraph wasn't mocking Jobs, it was mocking people who would seriously consider listening to him for healthcare advice.

Re: Make Something Wonderful – Steve Jobs in his own words

#57

Post by JohnFen »

filoleg wrote: post #51
JohnFen wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You say it’s trivial to have good taste, but it’s not trivial at all. I 100% agree. "Good taste" is just another phrase that means "style that I prefer". There is no such thing as an objective ideal of good taste. It's all about human preferences, and that gets very complicated very quickly.

> "Good taste" is just another phrase that means "style that I prefer". There is no such thing as an objective ideal of good taste. Strongly disagreed overall. I agree that there are plenty of situations where it is indeed just a matter of preference and is very subjective. But it is disingenous to claim that there is never such a thing as an objectively better preference. Literally the specific example we are talkin…

"Taste" refers to aesthetics. The plastic screen example isn't related to taste, it's related to functionality.

Re: Make Something Wonderful – Steve Jobs in his own words

#58

Post by rrgok »

This may feel a little depressing, but I would like to hear the HN community's thoughts on this. Every time I hear about making progress or creating something beautiful, the first thing that comes to mind is: for how long?

As humans, do we think about how long we are going to chase the ever-moving goal post of progress? Do we have a ballpark idea of it? Or are we moving like a dog chasing its own tail, going in circles, having just the illusion of going somewhere but never reaching anywhere?

It is bad day for me. Software Engineering make me only realize that people are never happy. You implement a nice feature that helps people and what comes out of their mouth: but can we improve on that? Not even thinking about what has been implemented.

Compared to 50 years ago, how much we improved. How comfortable our lives have become. And yet we are still chasing something and running somewhere.

Re: Make Something Wonderful – Steve Jobs in his own words

#59

Post by iamerroragent »

filoleg wrote: post #56
iamerroragent wrote: post #26

I have a thing for not taking advice from someone that doesn't listen to their doctor.

I have a thing for taking advice in specific fields from people who are doing great in those fields and appear to have something useful to say on related topics, and not taking advice from them on topics they don't seem to be knowledgeable about or make poor decisions in relation to. I would definitely love to listen to Steve Jobs's advice on topics of building products or companies. Not that they should be accepted…

"I hope they strongly reconsider their life choices."

Well unfortunately Steve waited too long to do that.

Re: Make Something Wonderful – Steve Jobs in his own words

#60

Post by filoleg »

Capricorn2481 wrote: post #37
misiti3780 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

except lots of people that have worked directly for him and with him say the exact opposite. here is one example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33703617 many others are documented in books about spacex and tesla

Elon has demonstrated publicly that he doesn't understand some pretty basic shit.

And? You can demonstrate your complete lack of knowledge of something basic in one area, and understand some extremely complex things in another.

Ben Carson (a US presidential candidate from 2016) is one of the most brilliant neurosurgeons in the world, and yet he derailed himself often by bumbling about his conspiracy theories about pyramids in Egypt being used as rice silos. He showed himself a fool on a number of public occasions. And yet, he understands all complexities involved in being a great neurosurgeon better than heavy majority of experts in his field.

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