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Why do self-respecting hackers use Gmail & Co?

laforge.gnumonks.org

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Re: Why do self-respecting hackers use Gmail & Co?

#101
post #92

1. Running a mail server is an unbelievable pain in the rear from an IT perspective. Note that by "mail server" I mean a good setup with spam filtration, webmail, SMTPS, IMAPS, etc. 2. Really good rich webmail. I personally use Mac Mail.app most of the time, but having that rich webmail is nice. 3. Filters mail at the server side. 4. Very good spam filtering... I post my gmail addresses on web pages with no obfuscati…

The one that got me was spam filtering. Google does a pretty good job at that, and I was really drowning in it.

I think they deserve a lot of credit for creating a product that both my mother (definitely not a 'power user') and I (previous email client: Emacs' Gnus) can both be reasonably productive with.

Re: Why do self-respecting hackers use Gmail & Co?

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience is the polar opposite. I have to rely on a native client to search because GMail search is so bad. It hasn't been that fast for a while -- waiting 30+s for a search is pretty routine nowadays. But worse, it's never really handled stemming well -- it has to be an exact word match, even for singular vs plural. And the number of false positives I get usually doesn't even make it worthwhile. I had resorted…

30s searches....I've gotta ask, how many gigabytes of email do you have? I've got about 3 and mine come back in less than a second.

One account has 2.5 GB, another has 700 MB. I'm on a lot of mailing lists and get a lot of transactional email. I just timed switching a label and that took 4s on the smaller account. This is in Chrome with SPDY enabled, too, so I doubt it's client transport.

I should probably note that it tends to be variable with the time of day. That's not unexpected, but still kinda sucks.

Re: Why do self-respecting hackers use Gmail & Co?

#103
post #3

It obviously boils down to "good enough" and "free enough" but I've planned on moving back to Postfix/Dovecot at home for the reasons outlined, just a time thing.

I've been thinking of doing this myself as I've heard great things about Dovecot. An ideal setup for me would be a VM hosted somewhere in the cloud (presumably my hosted VM can't be warrently searched in the same way as email), running a barebones Arch+Postfix/Dovecot. The only inhibitors are cost of hosting and time of setup, if anyone has information on either good hosting solutions or setup information I think it would be a useful addition to this thread.

Note: These instructions look fairly straightforward. http://www.howtoforge.com/arch-linux-mailserver-with-postfix...

Re: Why do self-respecting hackers use Gmail & Co?

#104
1. Setting up a mail server and keeping it running isn't easy 2. Spam filtering 3. (already mentioned) uptime - you don't want to lose email 4. The security of your email doesn't depend only on you - it also depends on where people you are communicating with are hosting their email.

It's much easier to get search privacy since the only other entity involved is the search engine. Which is why I use https://duckduckgo.com/ for search.

Re: Why do self-respecting hackers use Gmail & Co?

#105
post #16

Funny. I just asked for alternatives to Gmail and other hosted software on the Richard Stallman post http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3551345 Harald's suggestions boil down to - share the administrative and financial effort with friends - use hosting form NGOs or non-profits - use small companies and ISPs The first suggestions might work for me, but what does everyone else use? If you host your own what software?…

> If you host your own what software?

Dovecot and Postfix on a small FreeBSD VPS. Easy to set up, and it takes almost no effort to maintain once you've got it running. (The last time I modified my Postfix configuration was over a year ago, to relax my attachment size limit.) Between the FreeBSD handbook and the official Postfix documentation, all the info one could possibly need is provided.

A combination of Postgrey and SpamAssassin keeps my inbox spam free. You can also use mutt rather than Dovecot IMAP if you prefer to read your mail on the command line. Likewise, Debian will work just as well as FreeBSD in this role, if you're more comfortable on Linux. (Debconf even gives you a menu-driven Postfix configuration builder, it doesn't get any easier.)

Backups are handled by nightly rsync cron job on a local machine. I don't really have to think about them, aside from checking once in a while to make sure they're still running.

I have to laugh at all the self-proclaimed hackers in this thread claiming that setting up a personal email server is too difficult, takes too much time – or that they have "better things to do". No, I'm not one of those who would argue that a "real hacker" always has to do things the hardest way possible, quite the opposite. But at some point you have to ask yourself: if setting up a small mail server on a *nix system – a task extremely well documented and understood, a task that yields real technical and privacy benefits, a task that the operating system itself will hold your hand through if you're using Debian or Ubuntu – is too much of a challenge for you, then in what sense can you possibly call yourself a hacker?

Re: Why do self-respecting hackers use Gmail & Co?

#106
post #101
post #92

1. Running a mail server is an unbelievable pain in the rear from an IT perspective. Note that by "mail server" I mean a good setup with spam filtration, webmail, SMTPS, IMAPS, etc. 2. Really good rich webmail. I personally use Mac Mail.app most of the time, but having that rich webmail is nice. 3. Filters mail at the server side. 4. Very good spam filtering... I post my gmail addresses on web pages with no obfuscati…

The one that got me was spam filtering. Google does a pretty good job at that, and I was really drowning in it. I think they deserve a lot of credit for creating a product that both my mother (definitely not a 'power user') and I (previous email client: Emacs' Gnus) can both be reasonably productive with.

It's really easy to install SpamAssassin and point your MTA at it. Even the default configuration is highly effective.

Re: Why do self-respecting hackers use Gmail & Co?

#108
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one that got me was spam filtering. Google does a pretty good job at that, and I was really drowning in it. I think they deserve a lot of credit for creating a product that both my mother (definitely not a 'power user') and I (previous email client: Emacs' Gnus) can both be reasonably productive with.

It's really easy to install SpamAssassin and point your MTA at it. Even the default configuration is highly effective.

I did that, back in the day, but it just wasn't enough.

Re: Why do self-respecting hackers use Gmail & Co?

#109
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back up your email! Just because your data is in the cloud doesn't mean you shouldn't make a backup. I just run getmail which retrieves mail via Gmail's IMAP interface every now and then. If Gmail went away tomorrow, I wouldn't be _that_ sad.

Don't use IMAP for backups, use POP3 instead. If your e-mails are deleted in the cloud, your local IMAP e-mails will disappear as well.

If your e-mails are deleted in the cloud, your local IMAP e-mails will disappear as well

Vice-versa too. I learnt this the hard way :(

Re: Why do self-respecting hackers use Gmail & Co?

#110
If my accounts were shut down and all my email handed over to any 3 letter agency on earth, I'd be mildy annoyed. Dare I say, inconvenienced. For like a day. There just isn't anything in it worth worrying about.

I can be up and running on another provider in minutes while they wade through my Amazon.com receipts and bug reports for CRUD apps.

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