The Free Software Foundation is dying • Hacker News Board

Re: The Free Software Foundation is dying

#41

Post by api » Tue, Apr 11, 2023, 1:15 PM UTC

jmclnx wrote: post #4

>It’s time for Richard Stallman to go I was expecting to see this, there is nothing more corporations would like more then to see him gone. Then they can take full control of the FSF, already they have their hands in it. So far many of his predictions have come true and there are a few more that seems to be on their way to happening. What FSF should do is work stop the move to secure boot. Already there are Intel Lap…

They already have full control of the OSI and have made sure that the most popular open source licenses are friendly to the use of open source as free labor for huge SaaS companies.

Re: The Free Software Foundation is dying

#42

Post by rijoja » Tue, Apr 11, 2023, 1:15 PM UTC

jmclnx wrote: post #4

>It’s time for Richard Stallman to go I was expecting to see this, there is nothing more corporations would like more then to see him gone. Then they can take full control of the FSF, already they have their hands in it. So far many of his predictions have come true and there are a few more that seems to be on their way to happening. What FSF should do is work stop the move to secure boot. Already there are Intel Lap…

[flagged]

Re: The Free Software Foundation is dying

#43

Post by outsomnia » Tue, Apr 11, 2023, 1:16 PM UTC

shortrounddev wrote: post #10

> We need more leaders of color, women, LGBTQ representation, and others besides. The present leadership, particularly from RMS, creates an exclusionary environment in a place where inclusion and representation are important for the success of the movement. I'm not a fan of RMS, but this is the exact kind of left wing platitude that people think will revive an organization, but really just signals thats the organizat…

If there was a replacement RMS, they too would have to say no on points of principle to things, make enemies of people who want them to say yes, be whispered against, be unpopular.

That's what the role is, say what nobody else will say, make people uncomfortable when apathy is comfortable, and when nobody else will act, take action and rally others against things that are bad. It's not a role that will inspire universal love whomever takes it.

If instead FSF stops with that and tries not to upset anyone it will be dead, not just in decline.

Re: The Free Software Foundation is dying

#44

Post by bo1024 » Tue, Apr 11, 2023, 1:16 PM UTC

Appreciate and agree with this article. It is nice to see an article that strongly agrees with the principles of FSF, but also critical of their clear stagnation. It's also disappointing to see a number of comments here that dismiss the call for more diversity in leadership and participation, and more connections to other communities. I think this is very important to spread the reach of the FSF.

Re: The Free Software Foundation is dying

#45

Post by tjr » Tue, Apr 11, 2023, 1:17 PM UTC

shortrounddev wrote: post #10

> We need more leaders of color, women, LGBTQ representation, and others besides. The present leadership, particularly from RMS, creates an exclusionary environment in a place where inclusion and representation are important for the success of the movement. I'm not a fan of RMS, but this is the exact kind of left wing platitude that people think will revive an organization, but really just signals thats the organizat…

I worked for a company which licensed its product as GPLv2. One of our clients (who we trained on the product) saw this and then began competing with us by selling their own version of our product. The company released a newer version of the code and made it proprietary. The FSF answer to this is that this is exactly how the GPL is intended to work

Updating GPL code and making the resulting product proprietary is one of the main things the GPL is supposed to prevent.

Re: The Free Software Foundation is dying

#46

Post by ddevault » Tue, Apr 11, 2023, 1:17 PM UTC

GNUfanaticism wrote: post #15

>It’s time for Richard Stallman to go. >We need more leaders of color, women, LGBTQ representation, and others besides. The FSF is dying. What we need is women, people of color, minorities, and other people who have never played a major part in contributing, spreading or practicing free software ethos to lead the movement . There is nothing inherently wrong with diversity, but this is an attempt to spread an agenda,…

[flagged]

Re: The Free Software Foundation is dying

#47

Post by ndsipa_pomu » Tue, Apr 11, 2023, 1:17 PM UTC

brodouevencode wrote: post #22

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #7

How is the FSF failing? There seems to be far more freedom respecting choices nowadays than in the past and we're now entering the dawn of "free" cpus with RISC-V. I'd also consider that Linux is more widely used than at any time in the past as well. What am I missing?

They are being eclipsed in terms of contributions by the Linux Foundation, AI groups, robotics groups, you name it. There was a lot of squandered potential there. Stallman has spent the majority of the time arguing pedantically about things he has no control over - for instance he would yell at you for saying "Linux" instead of "GNU-Linux". He outlived the utility of being the FSF leader about 30 years ago and should…

Thanks.

I would hesitate to call them "dying", but maybe just becoming less relevant compared to other organisations.

Re: The Free Software Foundation is dying

#48

Post by zulban » Tue, Apr 11, 2023, 1:18 PM UTC

GNUfanaticism wrote: post #15

>It’s time for Richard Stallman to go. >We need more leaders of color, women, LGBTQ representation, and others besides. The FSF is dying. What we need is women, people of color, minorities, and other people who have never played a major part in contributing, spreading or practicing free software ethos to lead the movement . There is nothing inherently wrong with diversity, but this is an attempt to spread an agenda,…

"but this is an attempt to spread an agenda" yikes. Consider this: asking Saudi Arabia to let women drive and work any job isn't just a woke agenda. There's a strong practical and economic argument too.

If you don't know how Stallman is a strong net negative, you haven't been paying attention, and you certainly haven't seen him in person. I write a bit about this here:

https://blog.stuartspence.ca/oh-stallman.html

Re: The Free Software Foundation is dying

#49

Post by bo1024 » Tue, Apr 11, 2023, 1:18 PM UTC

GNUfanaticism wrote: post #15

>It’s time for Richard Stallman to go. >We need more leaders of color, women, LGBTQ representation, and others besides. The FSF is dying. What we need is women, people of color, minorities, and other people who have never played a major part in contributing, spreading or practicing free software ethos to lead the movement . There is nothing inherently wrong with diversity, but this is an attempt to spread an agenda,…

This comment implies that only white men have ever played a major part in the free software ethos, which is incorrect and offensive.

Re: The Free Software Foundation is dying

#50

Post by nicpottier » Tue, Apr 11, 2023, 1:18 PM UTC

shortrounddev wrote: post #10

> We need more leaders of color, women, LGBTQ representation, and others besides. The present leadership, particularly from RMS, creates an exclusionary environment in a place where inclusion and representation are important for the success of the movement. I'm not a fan of RMS, but this is the exact kind of left wing platitude that people think will revive an organization, but really just signals thats the organizat…

Yes, you don't want inclusion to be your only bar, but if you don't state it as a goal from the beginning then it won't even be considered. It is becoming a bigger and bigger red flag for an organization to not have some diversity of gender or race, pointing it out is not inappropriate.