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Stop Telling Everyone What You Do for a Living

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Re: Stop Telling Everyone What You Do for a Living

#131

When I did my PhD I hated it when (most) people asked about my research. It's not because I wasn't interested, it's because I'm really interested and was (still am) bad at giving concise summaries, so I felt like people who really didn't care and wouldn't listen to the answer were asking me to embark on a long explanation that required a bunch of preamble etc, just in order to make conversation. Anyway, I feel largel…

> bad at giving concise summaries This seems like something you could work on instead of implying it's other people's fault for asking you about a topic that they don't know they aren't interested in yet. If you have a punchy 20 second description, and then ask what they do, you'll have pivoted away unless they want to bring it back.

To be fair, I think the parent commenter is aware this is not the fault of the one who asked.

Though when doing a PhD, it's a worthy goal to be able do give a quick description. It also forces you to think about the goal / meaning of your work. Some topics are more easily summarized, but still.

We do science for people, it's only fair to be able to present them your work more or less roughly.

I had something for people not into computers, like: "I work on a method to find and understand computer bugs quicker and better." (Familiar with bugs? you don't like them? So you know it's useful!)

And then I could develop for the curious.

"Programs are written with code that tells the computer what to do, step by step. Like a cooking recipe. There are tools to see programs do things step by step so you can notice some step is wrong. On big programs this gets tedious. My approach helps starting this step by step investigation closer to the problematic step."

If still curious: "How? There's another method that looks at the step that looks at these steps and check they are correct with respect to some given rule. For instance, if you have a bag of objects, no step should try to remove an object if the bag is empty. This technique usually tells you something is wrong but does not tell you why it happen. I combine the first method with the second one: when some rule is broken, you are left exploring the program step by step at the point the rule broke, which is way better than doing it from the beginning". And go further / present the caveats if I feel whoever is listening is still curious.

For the people who already actually interacted with some code, I would also drop the technical words that are probably familiar to them. If you don't know whether they already actually know some stuff, they usually say the technical words themselves, to clarify.

For people who asked politely, they would receive the one sentence summary but often they want to know more if you piqued their curiosity. I had something like a progressive image of the thing that gets more and more precise to stop at the right time.

By the way you probably started skipping paragraphs in my comment at the point yours was satisfied. I made several paragraphs to allow you to do so.

Re: Stop Telling Everyone What You Do for a Living

#132

In the UK we do this as part of status negotiation - the second question anyone asks (after whats your name?) is what do you do? Then we can decide whether we are above or below the other person in the status hierarchy, which is roughly as follows: - Architect - Artist/Designer/Creative - Lawyer/Doctor/Teacher - Executive/Manager - ... - ... - Bar staff - Engineer - Software Engineer - Waiter - Driver - Cleaner

Architects are above engineers? I think this is a highly subjective list.

The list is obvious flamebait, just don't fall for it.

Re: Stop Telling Everyone What You Do for a Living

#133

When I did my PhD I hated it when (most) people asked about my research. It's not because I wasn't interested, it's because I'm really interested and was (still am) bad at giving concise summaries, so I felt like people who really didn't care and wouldn't listen to the answer were asking me to embark on a long explanation that required a bunch of preamble etc, just in order to make conversation. Anyway, I feel largel…

> bad at giving concise summaries This seems like something you could work on instead of implying it's other people's fault for asking you about a topic that they don't know they aren't interested in yet. If you have a punchy 20 second description, and then ask what they do, you'll have pivoted away unless they want to bring it back.

Yeah, when someone asks about you research as a casual conversation they're only looking for extremely high level summaries. Something like "I research plant metabolism."

I could see how a conversation could go very sideways if you're responding to "oh what do you research?" with details that are "in the weeds."

Re: Stop Telling Everyone What You Do for a Living

#134
post #114
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Around a decade ago, I stopped asking people the basic questions, like what they do, where they're from, how old they are, or their gender and pronouns when that is unclear. I find that it's irrelevant and will bias the relationship for no good reason. I had a good friend with whom I mostly kept in touch over the phone and online for many years, and I didn't know their name until they died and I got a call from their…

Not to sound insensitive, but how is it possible to consider someone a good friend without knowing the person’s name?

Presumably they referred to each other by their online pseudonyms.

Re: Stop Telling Everyone What You Do for a Living

#135

In the UK we do this as part of status negotiation - the second question anyone asks (after whats your name?) is what do you do? Then we can decide whether we are above or below the other person in the status hierarchy, which is roughly as follows: - Architect - Artist/Designer/Creative - Lawyer/Doctor/Teacher - Executive/Manager - ... - ... - Bar staff - Engineer - Software Engineer - Waiter - Driver - Cleaner

How very droll. Why are engineers considered so lowly?

Re: Stop Telling Everyone What You Do for a Living

#136
post #110
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in Waste Management.

Could you elaborate a bit on that? Personally I think waste management is one of the coolest things to do. Everyone generates waste, and it is fwcking so much up for us. An old Indian word for a sweeper (lowest caste sweeping roads with a broom) is Mahader - meaning ’the Greatest’. I’ve done work at waste water treatment facilities, land fills, incinerators, to name a few horrible places; and as terrible the surround…

The Sopranos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyvUFmm3h54

Re: Stop Telling Everyone What You Do for a Living

#137
I wish people would talk about their work more. There's so much to learn about how different industries function that's invisible to outsiders.

I don't want to hear about office politics, but I want to hear about your suppliers and customers, how do you decide what to sell, what to buy vs build, what weird regulations or norms exist in your industry, who are the experts in your industry and how did they become experts.

The productive part of our days are at least as interesting as the leisure parts.

Re: Stop Telling Everyone What You Do for a Living

#138
post #109

When I did my PhD I hated it when (most) people asked about my research. It's not because I wasn't interested, it's because I'm really interested and was (still am) bad at giving concise summaries, so I felt like people who really didn't care and wouldn't listen to the answer were asking me to embark on a long explanation that required a bunch of preamble etc, just in order to make conversation. Anyway, I feel largel…

I try play a game when i meet a new person: see how long i can go without discussing work with them. The best new connections tend to take the longest to reach work, it’s often a signal of a lazy conversation starter and like you said just an attempt to size up our social status.

> it’s often a signal of a lazy conversation starter

But this is fine, no? If it helps start a more enjoyable discussion afterwards. When you don't know the ones you are speaking with at all.

Though I indeed avoid focusing on work when starting a conversation. I usually try to phrase the question as "What do you do in your life?", which is more general and allows answering hobbies. I'm more interested in what people like than what they are possibly forced to do to fund it, or their opinions. Usually people will answer their what they do for a living but they will get another, more explicit question. I'm interested in knowing whether they will indeed answer by what they do for a living though.

And if they do something meaningful or enjoying for their living, it's actually interesting.

Re: Stop Telling Everyone What You Do for a Living

#139
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the time people steer the conversation right back to the two big hitters - how much money do you make and who are you sleeping with. To those that dont - you are truly the people I actually want to have a conversation with.

> Most of the time people steer the conversation right back to the two big hitters - how much money do you make and who are you sleeping with. This is probably the segue I hate the most and consider a deal breaker for any future interaction. A lot of people DO ask directly how much money do you make.

Must be culture or gender specific - I'm over 40 and I've literally never been asked how much money I make.

Are you talking about romantic partners?

Re: Stop Telling Everyone What You Do for a Living

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Architects are above engineers? I think this is a highly subjective list.

The list is obvious flamebait, just don't fall for it.

Sadly, it is in fact very real. The difference in how you are treated as an architect vs an engineer [in the UK] is really quite astonishing.

And also perhaps with good reason, as an architect you are keeper of the magic and mystery of the 'queen of the arts', whereas as an engineer you are just there to fix the tv/computer/iphone/whatever. As an architect you are part of polite conversation about what the world is/was/could be, whereas as an engineer you would not even get an invite. As an architect your life is (supposedly) parties and beautiful people, as an engineer board game nights and trappist beer (steady now!).

Of course the tech boom has upended things somewhat, but, in the the UK at least, we have been managing to keep a lid on that particular nonsense.

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