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Why do self-respecting hackers use Gmail & Co?

laforge.gnumonks.org

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Re: Why do self-respecting hackers use Gmail & Co?

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hushmail would disagree - https://www.hushmail.com/

Nice to know, thanks for the tip Did you try it and can compare it to gmail? Especially on: - linking other accounts (POP and IMAPS) - spam detection

I actually host my own email. I developed an open source application for automatically encrypting all email with my public key as soon as it arrives, and I can't do this if somebody else hosts my email. You can read why and how here: https://grepular.com/Automatically_Encrypting_all_Incoming_E...

Re: Why do self-respecting hackers use Gmail & Co?

#82
post #17

1. Rich webmail is an absolute must for me. I use too many different computers from too many different places for anything else to be remotely practical at this point. 2. No open source webmail servers that I've seen come close to Gmail's functionality, and I don't have time to write one that is. 3. Even if there was/I did, I couldn't get the spam filtering to anything like Google's level even in theory since I don't…

There is Zimbra. http://www.zimbra.com/products/zimbra-open-source.html

Zimbra has a very heavy feel (it is more Outlook than usable client) and the mobile support is not a part of the open source edition.

Re: Why do self-respecting hackers use Gmail & Co?

#83
I took "the pragmatic UNIX way" about 15 years ago with email. It works. I've not had to change it and don't feel compelled to bother changing it.

I host my own mail server. It's not hard regardless of the platform you use. I use debian+postfix+mutt as it pretty much works out of the box. I've changed perhaps two lines of postfix configuration (to set up maildir) and added a couple of lines to my muttrc to pick up maildir and view html mail using links.

I don't get SPAM at all. I don't stick my email address anywhere on the Internet where it will get snagged into a spam database. I never have. I've not had a single SPAM message in 15 years with the same email address. I do not use any spam filtering software.

I use aliases for mailing lists which are created and destroyed on demand using a couple of 2 line scripts ("append, newalises" -and- "sed, newalises").

I can get into it quite happily from anywhere using SSH on my mobile device using MIDPSSH or another machine with PuTTY, iSSH, or good old terminal SSH.

I don't keep emails ever. I action them, then throw them away. Those who keep everything are like the crazy old people who live in rooms stacked to the ceiling with newspapers. I have nothing to backup or care for in that department. If I lose my mailbox, I have lost nothing.

I do not manage my tasks with email. I use a text file in my home directory called notes.txt.

My contacts list is a text file called contacts.txt. Works on anything. Can be grepped.

My calendar is a text file called cal.txt. Works on anything. Can be grepped.

I probably spent about an hour in the last 10 years on email server configuration. That's considerably less time than some of my peers spend dredging through their 5 years of gmail junk.

Self respecting hackers don't use Gmail and Co.

Re: Why do self-respecting hackers use Gmail & Co?

#84
Surprised no one has mentioned FastMail [1] already. Excellent service, reasonable price.

It's good to be a paying customer, so if something goes wrong there is a sense of accountability for the service provider to remedy the situation.

With Gmail and other free service providers, remember that you are not the customer, you are the product -- for advertisers.

1) http://fastmail.fm/

Re: Why do self-respecting hackers use Gmail & Co?

#85
post #77
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok that's 2 customers who are also HNers. I think you'd need to do better than that. We are hardly a representative of the general consumer. There is another problem, US govt' need to get access all these messages. For example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hushmail , people seemed to have signed up, but Hushmail was forced to provide plaintext messages to US govt upon request. So they sort of compromised their main se…

"There is another problem, US govt' need to get access all these messages." You're assuming the service has to be located within the US. Why?

It doesn't have to, but unless it is located in Iran, NK or other US-unfriendly place, US govt can always pressure the local govt to pressure the local business to turn things over. I wouldn't, for example, count on countries like Switzerland, US is already getting to its banks to turn over US accounts, and is supposed to be one of the most independent and un-influenced countries.

With the current legislation trend, eventually un-cooperative or "terrorist friendly" sites would just be filtered out and blocked, so you might have a hard time accessing your email. Some messages might never make it to you.

Re: Why do self-respecting hackers use Gmail & Co?

#86
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The business model isn't there. I have yet to see a large group of consumers willing to pay for secure email and the only other alternative, advertising, leads to the exact same problem that you face with GMail.

I would pay and so would many others.

That seems to imply you don't already. There are lots of paid email services that don't monetize user's emails. And many that are hosted outside the United States.

For the extremely vigilant, there is always CounterMail

https://countermail.com/

The threat of email interruption and snooping can't be completely avoided. Undersea cables get cut, governments change, servers crash, data centers get raided, and companies disappear. At some point the data gets decrypted and everything is retrievable unless you are any extremely hard core PGP user. Even HushMail has to bend to the feds when it's all said and done. Even savvy people realize paranoia only gets you so far with email.

Re: Why do self-respecting hackers use Gmail & Co?

#87
post #21

Because we care about efficiency, not least with regards to our time, and running one's own mail server is not an efficient use of such a scarce resource.

It is if you don't want a potential competitor, potential acquirer, or just a large amoral corporation, to have an informational advantage over you.

Re: Why do self-respecting hackers use Gmail & Co?

#89
post #15

So why is there such a high degree of Gmail usage among those groups? Because we're lazy. you give away control over your personal data Yes, and if my data disappeared tomorrow, I'd be pretty pissed off. But since Gmail has a sort of critical mass, it would be likely that other people would lose data too. Lots of pissed off users would tarnish Google's reputation and it's in their interest to avoid that. you put your…

Yes, and if my data disappeared tomorrow, I'd be pretty pissed off. But since Gmail has a sort of critical mass, it would be likely that other people would lose data too. You're picturing some massive server failure, but not the more likely case of your Google account being disabled for any random reason, which has happened to more than a few people. As Gmail gains more users, you become that much less important to t…

I still believe the chance of Google losing or preventing access to my data is much lower than the chance of me accidentally screwing up my own server and finding out my backups don't work. It's a huge amount of work to get anywhere close to the reliability of GMail. You have to maintain the server, secure it, test backups, verify backups and deal with every security or maintenance issue that comes up.

It's a trade-off, and one I've come down on the side of GMail for.

Re: Why do self-respecting hackers use Gmail & Co?

#90
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back up your email! Just because your data is in the cloud doesn't mean you shouldn't make a backup. I just run getmail which retrieves mail via Gmail's IMAP interface every now and then. If Gmail went away tomorrow, I wouldn't be _that_ sad.

Don't use IMAP for backups, use POP3 instead. If your e-mails are deleted in the cloud, your local IMAP e-mails will disappear as well.

Actually do. Since he's using getmail, its making a copy to his local system. It just happens to be able to do that over IMAP. You are better off doing this than doing the same with POP because Gmail's POP deletes mails as you read them, which is non-standard. You could lose emails if there are network, disk, or other errors.
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