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Roger Penrose claims our Universe has been through multiple Big Bangs

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181–190 of 248 posts

Re: Roger Penrose claims our Universe has been through multiple Big Bangs

#181

I've always liked the theory that every black hole has a white hole on the other "side" that spews out a universe from the information it collects. And the original black/white hole? Well, something something quantum fluctuation something out of nothing.

Penrose was the one to propose the "cosmic censorship conjecture", that you can't have a naked singularity, to justify why we don't see white holes.

Re: Roger Penrose claims our Universe has been through multiple Big Bangs

#183

The concept of infinity seems impossible to me in physical world. It's a great mathematical concept to model our understanding. Just like imaginary numbers. I cannot imagine anything being infinite in the physical world. I find the simulation hypothesis more probable than Universe being infinite. Space and Time is not infinite. It may be Gazillions of centuries old, but not infinity. It can't be.

That seems to be a personal problem. There's nothing inconsistent about either space or time being infinite.

It's a personal outlook, not a problem. It's not a statement of fact. It's an opinion at best.

Re: Roger Penrose claims our Universe has been through multiple Big Bangs

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, that is my understanding. He does call it a crazy theory, but its a whole different kind of crazy that most people think of. I've listened to him talk about it and yea, when you actually listen to him you get the vibe of, "its an interesting idea that the math can't really prove or disprove, it may not be right, but it is an interesting thought experiment." I would say it is a step below Fred Hoyle. For those wh…

Should we entertain unfalsifiable theories?

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." Aristotle.

Re: Roger Penrose claims our Universe has been through multiple Big Bangs

#185

No offence, but Sir Penrose has been claiming a lot of very unlikely things the last couple of years without any evidence. Which is fine, philosophy is important, but let’s not put his statements in the realm of actual science.

A hypothesis is part of science. You have to have an idea to have something to test!

Re: Roger Penrose claims our Universe has been through multiple Big Bangs

#186

IANAP - why are these ideas so controversial? The article seems to suggest he has some (potentially) supporting evidence, and I don't have an intuition for how damning the counter-argument is ("This would necessitate making all particles lose mass as the universe gets old." Again, IANAP and physics can get weird).

Mostly its controversial simply because the evidence for it is week. You need to perform a complicated analysis of the CMB, to find some statistical artifacts that are consistent with your theory, and not any other theory. This is incredibly difficult, because the CMB is very noisy, we don't have a full understanding of how the universe evolved post big bang, and even with our current understanding, a full simulation is computationally impossible. Penrose's analysis found the signature that shows CCC, however when others attempt to perform the analysis, they do not find it. As such, the accuracy of the only evidence remains controversial.

In addition to the empirical lack of convincing evidence, there is also a theoretical problem. In order for CCC to work, you need to assume that all massive particles decay. The is not inconceivable, but involves things like proton decay, which is speculative at best, and electron decay, for which (as far as I am aware) we do not even have a serious speculative mechanism.

Re: Roger Penrose claims our Universe has been through multiple Big Bangs

#187

The concept of infinity seems impossible to me in physical world. It's a great mathematical concept to model our understanding. Just like imaginary numbers. I cannot imagine anything being infinite in the physical world. I find the simulation hypothesis more probable than Universe being infinite. Space and Time is not infinite. It may be Gazillions of centuries old, but not infinity. It can't be.

The universe being finite in any way is even harder to grasp for me. How can existence itself have a beginning?

That's a great point. I don't know (obviously). But I tend to think that there is actually a point in space beyond which it does not make sense to ask the question "What is beyond this". Just like when we are at North Pole, the question "Which way is North" does not make sense.

Re: Roger Penrose claims our Universe has been through multiple Big Bangs

#188
post #22

Then how did the first one came about? What was there before it, pls don’t tell me nothing because it was nothing for a long time and then something must have triggered the first one. Or was there no first one because of infinity?

Spacetime is a property of the universe. So is the idea of causality. "Before" or "outside" make no sense when talking about the universe.

Re: Roger Penrose claims our Universe has been through multiple Big Bangs

#189
post #19

> What proof does the physicist have for this theory he dubbed “conformal cyclic cosmology” (CCC) that goes against the current Big Bang dogma? It doesn't go against the current "dogma", as the Big Bang theory only covers history up until a fraction of a second after the big bang. Anything before that is basically fair game, even though some ideas are further out there than others. Penrose admits it's a "crazy idea o…

I had a hard time understanding the leap she made near the end of her video yesterday about co moving frames. She summarized the time travel theory/paradox as it has been known until now, and then she made some kind of reference to an co moving inertial frame observer ("moving at the same rate as the average of all of the stuff in the universe" paraphrased) she claimed would exist under general relativity.

My understanding was that there was no such thing as inertial frame observers in GR, and that an observer in GR is actually something traveling on a world line in time with a future light cone and a post light cone. The observer portion in GR is literally the ability to observe with light, not a coordinate system as defined from within an inertial frame as in special relativity.

Thats because in GR, because of the curvature of space, you could not extend a coordinate system across all of existence because you knew that in some areas curvature would cause that to be not accurate. You can sort of declare space effectively flat within a local region but not across the entire universe.

It also wasn't clear what someone moving at an co-frame to the average of all the stuff in the universe has to do with faster than light travel - in a spacetime diagram a co-frame would be vertical with a horizontal constant offset, but faster than light travel would have to be in v > c zone not vertical. Maybe I'm too much of a layman to understand the logic she was using but none of it was very clear to me.

Re: Roger Penrose claims our Universe has been through multiple Big Bangs

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should we entertain unfalsifiable theories?

"The Earth is round" was once an unsatisfiable theory for quite a while.

This is such a common trope. Erasthenes observed the Earth must be round using shadows over 2 thousand years ago. There was never an intellectual controversy about it before internet dupes fell for an obvious prank.
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