41–50 of 92 posts
Sigh. As someone who’s had success in 12-step recovery since 1998, I find these sorts of “debunkings” incredibly disappointing. Firstly the measurement of success rate entirely misses the point. The 12-step view is that there isn’t a “once and done” cure. If I were to use an analogy it’s more like having lifelong diabetes. You gotta keep taking that insulin. It’s the continuity that forestalls the disease/ keeps you…
Teaches you to keep your ego, empower yourself to change, rather than the helpless feeling of yielding to a higher power taught in AA.
Sigh. As someone who’s had success in 12-step recovery since 1998, I find these sorts of “debunkings” incredibly disappointing. Firstly the measurement of success rate entirely misses the point. The 12-step view is that there isn’t a “once and done” cure. If I were to use an analogy it’s more like having lifelong diabetes. You gotta keep taking that insulin. It’s the continuity that forestalls the disease/ keeps you…
Sigh. As someone who’s had success in 12-step recovery since 1998, I find these sorts of “debunkings” incredibly disappointing. Firstly the measurement of success rate entirely misses the point. The 12-step view is that there isn’t a “once and done” cure. If I were to use an analogy it’s more like having lifelong diabetes. You gotta keep taking that insulin. It’s the continuity that forestalls the disease/ keeps you…
Yeah...been hearing this stuff for 42 years. I could probably make an entirely convincing argument as to why you shouldn't try it. That's because I've heard it all. If you don't want what we have ... no worries. You won't get it. The problem is when we make decisions for other people. Things look very, very different, when it's our own butt on the line.
Which is precisely what this article is complaining about. AA both as a program and as cultural push "abstinence first" is harming addicts for which the AA method is not successful. Which is most people. For instance drug therapies are slow to be given approval, people are sent to AA programs through court orders, etc.
As an individual if it works for you that's wonderful. But governmental policy and cultural norms should be based on what's effective.
Doctor sells vulnerable people a dependence on his brand of snake oil, “debunks” one of the valid, well-studied, and free paths to recovery; NPR unquestionably parrots hot air on their weekly hot air power hour.
Oh, let me hear the psychiatrist who has a new plan to overcome addiction with his bag of tricks. People worship modern psychiatry/psychology as this scientific insight into the human mind that has finally done away with superstition and religion, and can accurately (and repeatably) tell us what's happening with people suffering from various mental ailments, and how to fix it. But for some reason, every time a shooti…
>... and bury the fact that the majority of the shooters are on SSRI's and a host of other medication. Can you please cite a source for this? >It's because when you peek behind the curtain, you find they're just a form of culturally acceptable medicine men. "Here, take these pills and it will solve all your issues! No we don't have any idea what 'chemical imbalance' is happening, or even if it's happening, but that's…
Besides, even if true, it seems a lot like "people on blood pressure medication disproportionately likely to have heart attacks".
Like... duh? That doesn't (necessarily!) mean the medicine's not helping.
I'm a recovering alcoholic who has worked the 12 steps. To get this out the way, I agree that courts should not be sending people to AA. It's no good for anyone. The reason that the 5 to 10 percent do well in AA actually doesn't have to do with the 12 steps themselves; it has to do with the camaraderie. I agree with the second half of the that sentence, but the reason the reason many people including researchers don'…
However none of that addresses or even attempts to discover the underlying cause(s) of the addiction - instead it assumes it's 'all your fault' and you just need to 'change' to fix it. Perhaps it is external factors that created and continue to drive the addiction (e.g. bad relationships, too much responsibility, unfulfilling work, feeling trapped, boredom, loneliness). Addiction often starts as self medication, befo…
Actually, that assumption is very much not part of AA, and very much not part of the 12 steps as they're usually understood.
For example, take step 1. "Admit you have a problem." You seem to be saying that admitting a problem is the same as blaming oneself. NOT TRUE.
In fact, one of the most important things to acknowledge is that it's not your fault. It's just a disease. And, like any disease, there are idiosyncrasies to treating it that will be different from other diseases.
This is not a debunking. There are "support groups" for almost everything (watch Fight Club to see examples of that).
>The reason that the 5 to 10 percent do well in AA actually doesn't have to do with the 12 steps themselves; it has to do with the camaraderie. It's a supportive organization with people who are on the whole kind to you, and it gives you a structure. Some people can make a lot of use of that. And to its credit, AA describes itself as a brotherhood rather than a treatment.
I don't know about the 5-10% figure; let's assume that's valid. But saying the other 90% are harmed is a big overstep. The only way that would be true is if there were some other treatment that's more effective, and the 90% could have gone to that instead of AA. But he doesn't claim there is.
I'd propose that someone who goes to AA and doesn't like it probably then tries drugs, psychotherapy, and anything else. Or just continues on his own.