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Roger Penrose claims our Universe has been through multiple Big Bangs

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Re: Roger Penrose claims our Universe has been through multiple Big Bangs

#81
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I myself am partial to the Latter-day Saint teaching that matter/energy has always existed (and forever will exist) and that the creation of the world involved "organizing" existing matter in an iterative process. That matches the pattern of creation I've experienced myself where I take something that already exists and iterate on it until it is in a refined state that I desire. I find it hard to believe that the min…

How is an infinite universe that's been painstakingly engineered by an infinitely omnipotent being less mindboggling than evolutionary biology?

Agreed. From the late Rev. Dr. John Polkinghorne KBE FRS — a noted Cambridge particle physicist, turned late-call Church of England priest [0]: "Early on, an Anglican clergyman, Charles Kingsley, stated powerfully the right way to think theologically about evolution. He said that God could no doubt have brought into being a ready-made world, but in fact the Creator had done something cleverer than that in making ‘a creation that could make itself’." [1]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Polkinghorne

[1] https://www.questioningchristian.org/2006/03/the_continuing_... (Emphasis added.)

Re: Roger Penrose claims our Universe has been through multiple Big Bangs

#82
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what got the cycle going in the first place?

That presumes that the cycle isn't the ground state and something had to start it. Also,i feel there are no satisfactory answers here. See also https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unmoved_mover

What you are describing is infinity. For infinite time, this cycle has existed.

That concept is easy to say, but very difficult to mentally accept. We’re too accustomed to thinking of time linearly since we’ve never had examples to the contrary.

Re: Roger Penrose claims our Universe has been through multiple Big Bangs

#83
Either we're in a simulation or the universe is infinite and has always existed. Eventually the science will catch up.

Eternal Inflation is a similar idea, but suggests greater spacing between universes allowing for independent physics to develop.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_inflation

Re: Roger Penrose claims our Universe has been through multiple Big Bangs

#84

I know HN hates religion, but after being an atheist all my life, and graduating with a STEM degree (the 'S' part) from a top tier institution, I've started in the last year or so to turn to the church (Roman Catholic) and theism, both to find answers to some of life's mysteries, such as the origin of the Universe, and for personal reasons (I plan to start my initiation, starting with a baptism, within the next year…

Hate seems to be such a strong word. I mean, as a man of faith myself, I have encountered HN posts that are compel me to consider "how can anyone, God-fearing or not, not see the disappointing hubris in this claim (that summarily and dogmatically counters the mystery of God)?" For one to express the pursuit and fruits of a relationship with the Creator, on the other hand, is quite the opposite and most admirable and NOT delusional, IMHO. @GallenErso: I celebrate your positive (sans skepticism, that is) investment in the mystery of Life! In the final analysis, I trust that you'll find more than just satisfaction in this supernatural pursuit--myself, I have found an alarming and disarming hope, beauty & suffering in charity and meaning & purpose in every single endeavor. Lasty... I'd encourage you to check out the Magis Center. God bless!

Re: Roger Penrose claims our Universe has been through multiple Big Bangs

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the problem is epistemology, not aesthetics. why are you comfortable believing in things that are nonfalsifiable? that you find them comforting is not much of an argument.

Scientific theories about the origins of the Universe, such as the one that this post is about, are equally nonfalsifiable.

A scientist theorizing is not the same as a scientific theory. Nonfalsifiable surely ought to mean end of wits or preferably being content with simply not being able to truly know, not "anything goes".

Making stuff up to ponder the possibilities is all fine, don't get me wrong. But it shouldn't be given too much weight.

Re: Roger Penrose claims our Universe has been through multiple Big Bangs

#87
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you referring to re Linus Paulings?

Another user in this thread mentioned it and it's described in the wikipedia article about crazy nobel laureates linked elsewhere here. Basically, Pauling believed high doses of vitamin C could prolong the lives of cancer patients and cure schizophrenia, despite being out of his field of expertise and lack of evidence.

But Penrose's field of expertise is Cosmology. So I don't think I get the analogy?

I understand that this is a speculation because it is very hard to collect evidence for that claim but it is still within the wide umbrella of what Penrose devoted his career.

Re: Roger Penrose claims our Universe has been through multiple Big Bangs

#88
Interesting to note that the idea of the "Big Bounce" has been around a long time. Penrose's claim seems to be that there may be evidence of it in cosmic background radiation hotspots.

This was Nietzsche in 1885, musing on how developments in thermodynamics had complicated the mechanistic picture of the universe:

> And do you know what "the world" is to me? Shall I show it to you in my mirror? This world: a monster of energy, without beginning, without end; a firm, iron magnitude of force that does not grow bigger or smaller, that does not expend itself but only transforms itself; as a whole, of unalterable size, a household without expenses or losses, but likewise without increase or income; enclosed by "nothingness" as by a boundary; not something blurry or wasted, not something endlessly extended, but set in a definite space as a definite force, and not a space that might be "empty" here or there, but rather as force throughout, as a play of forces and waves of forces, at the same time one and many, increasing here and at the same time decreasing there; a sea of forces flowing and rushing together, eternally changing, eternally flooding back, with tremendous years of recurrence, with an ebb and a flood of its forms; out of the simplest forms striving toward the most complex, out of the stillest, most rigid, coldest forms toward the hottest, most turbulent, most self-contradictory, and then again returning home to the simple out of this abundance, out of the play of contradictions back to the joy of concord, still affirming itself in this uniformity of its courses and its years, blessing itself as that which must return eternally, as a becoming that knows no satiety, no disgust, no weariness: this, my Dionysian world of the eternally self-creating, the eternally self-destroying, this mystery world of the twofold voluptuous delight, my "beyond good and evil," without goal, unless the joy of the circle is itself a goal; without will, unless a ring feels good will toward itself-do you want a name for this world? A solution for all its riddles? A light for you, too, you best-concealed, strongest, most intrepid, most midnightly men?- This world is the will to power-and nothing besides! And you yourselves are also this will to power-and nothing besides!

Re: Roger Penrose claims our Universe has been through multiple Big Bangs

#90
post #6

Nobel disease or Nobelitis is the embracing of strange or scientifically unsound ideas by some Nobel Prize winners, usually later in life. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_disease

"People far smarter than me often have ideas I can't understand. They must be fucked up somehow. I can't see any other explanation for it."
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