Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

#161

Post by smni » Mon, Apr 10, 2023, 2:21 PM UTC

traveler01 wrote: post #144

insane_dreamer wrote: post #138

Still slightly higher than Q1 2020 or Q1 2019, so really just regression to the mean after the unusual spike in demand created by the pandemic. Source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/263428/apples-revenue-fr...

Generally Apple users don't update their computers too often, and when they released the M1 models a lot of people had models pre-2016 that needed upgrading (since pos-2016 models sucked balls). So, part of that unusual demand was also customers finally upgrading their old MacBooks.

I’m still using a 15” MBP from 2012 for my personal computer! Waiting to see if a 15” MacBook Air gets released soon, as per the rumors.

Re: Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

#162

Post by hbn » Mon, Apr 10, 2023, 2:21 PM UTC

the_third_wave wrote: post #55

That PC sales went down in times of economic downturn is not surprising at all seeing how as for most people there is not that much to be gained from buying a new machine over an older one - performance is sufficient. That Apple sales went down is somewhat surprising because this company occupies a market segment which is closer to that of a lifestyle brands like Prada, Hermes and Gucci than it is to a more standard…

The typical Mac owner was not buying a new machine every year or 2 before this either. I'd bet most people were using them for 5+ years for quite a while before this.

I bought a late-2013 13" MBP when starting university in 2014, used it all the way through to graduation, and didn't upgrade from it until the 14-inch Pro came out in 2021. Even then, it was still a passable machine for a lot of non-demanding workloads, but it no longer had software support and I'm a nerd that wanted to try the fancy new Apple Silicon for myself. I think my sister got like 8 or so years out of her 2010 MBP as well.

Macs have had good, long lifespans before this too (with exceptions for some budget configurations that were questionable value at the time of purchase)

Re: Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

#163

Post by _hao » Mon, Apr 10, 2023, 2:21 PM UTC

davidmurdoch wrote: post #86

_hao wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've used a Mac in my previous job and it was OK experience. The M1's hardware is truly great (I bought one for myself as well, since I didn't have a laptop at the time) and I like the portability. There are a lot of smaller features that I really like, but the overall experience for development is just not there. I use mostly my desktop setup for dev work. I can attach different machines to my monitor or use picture…

I'm switching back to Windows after 5 yrs on Linux. There are many things Linux is not just better at, but so many things windows just can't do (because devs haven't bother to make it work). Do you find that wsl is all you need to run all the dev tooling and software for development, or do you have to spin up a Linux VM?

I do most of my back-end development inside WSL (C#/C++, some JS). There's a way to run GUI Linux apps from WSL as well (for example GitKraken which I use on both Windows and from WSL) which is awesome - https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/tutorials/gui-....

Docker Desktop on Windows has full support inside WSL and integrates seamlessly i.e. can access running containers on your Win install from WSL without issues etc.

One thing I have to highlight is that you shouldn't do dev from WSL inside windows folders (my main work folders are under WSL's /home). File access is very slow, If you want to do that I think you can go for WSL 1, not 2, but I won't bother honestly. Just use WSL2 and do your work on Linux folders.

For Windows I use PowerToys extensively to bring window layouts and stacking the way I want via FancyZones. It's not exactly like the window tiling managers you'll find on Linux, but it does the job well enough.

Re: Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

#164

Post by ThorsBane » Mon, Apr 10, 2023, 2:22 PM UTC

mkl95 wrote: post #25

It took me almost 11 years to replace my i7 2600k and I only replaced it because I no longer use a desktop computer. Some M1 users will keep their chip for 10+ years.

I dominated a base-model m1 13" for almost two years, pushing it through startup engineering workflows. It handled everything admirably despite "just" 8gb of ram. I still have it but upgraded to the 16" for the bigger viewport and high refresh rate, but the 13" is no slouch. I could see it having lasted another couple years for my web-dev workflows, although the display size/refresh improvements for the 16" were what I needed.

Re: Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

#165

Post by arberx » Mon, Apr 10, 2023, 2:23 PM UTC

insane_dreamer wrote: post #138

Still slightly higher than Q1 2020 or Q1 2019, so really just regression to the mean after the unusual spike in demand created by the pandemic. Source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/263428/apples-revenue-fr...

So the stock should regress to the mean by this logic since it's up 100% since then?

Re: Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

#166

Post by _kblcuk_ » Mon, Apr 10, 2023, 2:24 PM UTC

bluedino wrote: post #141

reacharavindh wrote: post #5

I think Apple being as big, and making the big technological leap with M1 convinced a lot of customers to buy the new Macs. Even those that technically weren’t needing one/upgrade. Now, that curiosity bubble has saturated with the M2 being an iterative improvement and the customer base certainly not as desperate (intel to M1). Given enough time, I think the Macs will continue to gain market share. Most tech companies…

I think a lot of the 13" buyers will end up upgrading as they sound pretty tired about the lack of dual-monitor support.

Those who needed dual-monitor support probably didn't buy 13" MBPs/Airs to start with?

Re: Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

#167

Post by insane_dreamer » Mon, Apr 10, 2023, 2:25 PM UTC

traveler01 wrote: post #144

insane_dreamer wrote: post #138

Still slightly higher than Q1 2020 or Q1 2019, so really just regression to the mean after the unusual spike in demand created by the pandemic. Source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/263428/apples-revenue-fr...

Generally Apple users don't update their computers too often, and when they released the M1 models a lot of people had models pre-2016 that needed upgrading (since pos-2016 models sucked balls). So, part of that unusual demand was also customers finally upgrading their old MacBooks.

I have a 2017 model; other than replacing the keyboard (for free) I've been happy with it (also keyboard replacement ended up being a good thing as I got a whole new top-case with it for free). Would like to get an Mx but will probably wait until it does (I don't "need" to upgrade at this point, more like a "want").

Re: Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

#168

Post by melling » Mon, Apr 10, 2023, 2:27 PM UTC

arberx wrote: post #165

insane_dreamer wrote: post #138

Still slightly higher than Q1 2020 or Q1 2019, so really just regression to the mean after the unusual spike in demand created by the pandemic. Source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/263428/apples-revenue-fr...

So the stock should regress to the mean by this logic since it's up 100% since then?

Nope. That logic might be correct if Apple’s profits were 100% from the Mac.

There’s this smaller device called the iPhone…

Re: Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

#169

Post by brink » Mon, Apr 10, 2023, 2:27 PM UTC

lukevp wrote: post #160

JKCalhoun wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that's my bigger worry: that "desktop" (and then "laptop") are going to become niche platforms that only old-timers use. I dread our only-phone future.

If you could dock a phone and use it with a keyboard, mouse, and monitor, and it had all the software you used, whorls you still be worried? Microsoft did this with Continuum in windows phone 10, and iPadOS is trying to grow up to support more multitasking and a keyboard+mouse. It’s not too far of a leap that the iPhone could do the same thing. This would also be a lot cheaper than also purchasing a laptop.

Sure, that sounds fine on paper. But the problem would be that you can't install whatever you want on your iPhone. So iPhones would have to drastically open up before that becomes some kind of utopia. We want a future where people own their hardware, and going to a phones-only world currently wouldn't be a move in that direction.

Re: Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

#170

Post by criddell » Mon, Apr 10, 2023, 2:27 PM UTC

ta1243 wrote: post #132

propogandist wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A thinkpad would offer great build quality, although some of that is slipping due to Lenovo’s cost cutting strategies. Unfortunately, today’s Windows OS is spyware, especially Windows 11, so the entire OS needs to be removed, if you want a good machine which fires not constantly send usage data to the Azure mothership, or some 3rd party.

People have being lamenting the death of thinkpad for nearly 20 years. Lenovo purchase in 2005, keyboard changes in 2012, etc It's still here, and still solid

A ThinkPad running Windows is not solid compared to a recent MacBook running macOS. Part of it is due to Lenovo (plastic case that flexes, crappy trackpad, terrible speakers, etc…), part is Intel’s fault (CPU that runs hot and uses a lot of power) and part is due to Windows (a weird sleep mode that has the fan spinning even when the machine is closed and in a bag). This is all from my experience with a recent P1.

Maybe they are as solid as they’ve always been, but the bar has been raised and Lenovo, Intel, or Microsoft haven’t responded yet.

There are a lot of smart people working on these problems and I’m hopeful that Intel will soon leapfrog Apple and fast, fanless Windows machines with 12+ hours of battery life will be available.