What archaeology is telling us about the real Jesus • Hacker News Board

Re: What archaeology is telling us about the real Jesus

#91

Post by sudhirc » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 6:03 AM UTC

AlbertCory wrote: post #86

sudhirc wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "His moral lessons are mostly facile and poorly explained and similar ideas were expressed by the greek philosophers earlier. Read any Hindu upnishads especially Bhagwad Gita[0]. Chapter 16 especially defines the code of conduct for good peoples. Here is the opening statement. श्रीभगवानुवाच | अभयं सत्त्वसंशुद्धिर्ज्ञानयोगव्यवस्थिति: | दानं दमश्च यज्ञश्च स्वाध्यायस्तप आर्जवम् || 1|| अहिंसा सत्यमक्रोधस्त्याग: शान्तिर…

you seem to be on a different topic. Maybe start your own thread?

I am simply responding to your assertion that world before Christianity was a dog eat dog uncivilized wasteland and Jesus taught it morally.

On the contrary, before the advent of Christianity Greek and Romans had dialogs on various topics. IFAIK Science and Philosophy came to a stand still for a thousand years till renaissance happened. If you evidence to the contrary, please do share some references.

Bible divided the world in believers and heathen so claiming it promoted universal brotherhood is laughable. World was never a perfect place, Christianity made it worse.

Re: What archaeology is telling us about the real Jesus

#92

Post by sudhirc » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 6:28 AM UTC

AlbertCory wrote: post #85

krapp wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Slavery was accepted almost everywhere. Jesus wasn't anti-slavery, because he was a Jew and slavery is directly supported by Jewish law and scripture, sometimes with quotes from God himself. Jesus even commands slaves to obey their masters. >Women were very definitely second-class citizens. Read the Pauline epistles, particularly 1st Timothy. "I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she m…

So you haven't answered my question: what Greek philosopher said anything like what Jesus said (as you understand those sayings)? Your other points are disingenuous at best. The eventual abolition of slavery in England was driven directly by Christian beliefs, however much they'd evolved in the ensuing time. The bit about the Pauline epistles is also disingenuous. You picked one quote. Mary Magdalene was one of the d…

> The eventual abolition of slavery in England was driven directly by Christian beliefs, however much they'd evolved in the ensuing time.

You do need to provide some evidence to support this claim. AFAIK slavery became unnecessary in the industrial era. So it morphed into Indentured servitude. Bible followers didn't hesitate from pillaging the world.

> Women were considered to be "in the image and likeness of God."

Could you quote something from Bible on this topic.

> the Romans didn't care how much you suffered. It was the Roman Empire where Christianity took off first.

Christianity tool off when Roman king understood it's political power and decided to use it. He then forced it down the throats of unorganised pagans who got eliminated brutally.

> But the tendency for many donors to use such legal instruments for self-glorification, personally advantageous politicking, and the conservation of family wealth did little to help larger numbers of the destitute in growing Roman imperial cities.

If that is the case then why GDP of Europe was declining?

Re: What archaeology is telling us about the real Jesus

#93

Post by AlbertCory » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 3:25 PM UTC

sudhirc wrote: post #91

AlbertCory wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you seem to be on a different topic. Maybe start your own thread?

I am simply responding to your assertion that world before Christianity was a dog eat dog uncivilized wasteland and Jesus taught it morally. On the contrary, before the advent of Christianity Greek and Romans had dialogs on various topics. IFAIK Science and Philosophy came to a stand still for a thousand years till renaissance happened. If you evidence to the contrary, please do share some references. Bible divided t…

> your assertion that world before Christianity was a dog eat dog uncivilized wasteland and Jesus taught it morally

this was a dialog about whether Greek philosophers said the same things, but better. The rest is your own invention.

Re: What archaeology is telling us about the real Jesus

#94

Post by AlbertCory » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 3:27 PM UTC

sudhirc wrote: post #92

AlbertCory wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you haven't answered my question: what Greek philosopher said anything like what Jesus said (as you understand those sayings)? Your other points are disingenuous at best. The eventual abolition of slavery in England was driven directly by Christian beliefs, however much they'd evolved in the ensuing time. The bit about the Pauline epistles is also disingenuous. You picked one quote. Mary Magdalene was one of the d…

> The eventual abolition of slavery in England was driven directly by Christian beliefs, however much they'd evolved in the ensuing time. You do need to provide some evidence to support this claim. AFAIK slavery became unnecessary in the industrial era. So it morphed into Indentured servitude. Bible followers didn't hesitate from pillaging the world. > Women were considered to be "in the image and likeness of God." C…

You don't like Christianity. That's nice. You must have me mistaken for a Christian.

Re: What archaeology is telling us about the real Jesus

#95

Post by nathan_compton » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 6:20 PM UTC

DiggyJohnson wrote: post #51

nathan_compton wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From some Christians' points of view the important part of the Jesus story is that he is sacrificed by God as a way of dealing with a fundamental break between humanity and God having to do with the Jewish priesthood.

That is the other important aspect of the Jesus story. He was the son of God in human flesh, exemplified by the manner in which he lived ("good guy") and by his teachings. Yet he was betrayed by one of his disciples, and died a distinctly "low death". I think it's more correct to say that God sent Jesus down to Earth and Jesus sacrificed himself / God forsake him, than "he is sacrificed by God". This is probably a bi…

Yeah, but like there have been and will continue to be plenty of good dudes. From a Christian point of view Christ's goodness is necessary, but not sufficient, to make him an important figure.

Re: What archaeology is telling us about the real Jesus

#96

Post by nathan_compton » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 6:24 PM UTC

AlbertCory wrote: post #90

RC_ITR wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean not to be all like “read Plato’s republic, literally the most famous Greek philosophy” but… * Polemarchus claims that justice is helping one’s friends and harming one’s enemies and that this is what one owes people (332c). Socrates’ objections to Polemarchus’ definition are as follows: (i) Is this appropriate in medicine or cooking? So in what context is this the case? (332d)? (ii) The just person will also be…

Already read it, thanks. Somehow, I don't see this drawing throngs of Hebrew peasants. Just doesn't have that common touch, or something.

I often say Jesus is Socrates for idiots, so you're kind of right.

Re: What archaeology is telling us about the real Jesus

#97

Post by ajdude » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 6:27 PM UTC

Why was this flagged?

Re: What archaeology is telling us about the real Jesus

#98

Post by sudhirc » Sun, Apr 09, 2023, 12:56 AM UTC

AlbertCory wrote: post #94

sudhirc wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The eventual abolition of slavery in England was driven directly by Christian beliefs, however much they'd evolved in the ensuing time. You do need to provide some evidence to support this claim. AFAIK slavery became unnecessary in the industrial era. So it morphed into Indentured servitude. Bible followers didn't hesitate from pillaging the world. > Women were considered to be "in the image and likeness of God." C…

You don't like Christianity. That's nice. You must have me mistaken for a Christian.

Instead of proselyzing you should present some references. Start with justification of a millennia dark age in Europe.

Re: What archaeology is telling us about the real Jesus

#99

Post by AlbertCory » Sun, Apr 09, 2023, 3:23 PM UTC

sudhirc wrote: post #98

AlbertCory wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't like Christianity. That's nice. You must have me mistaken for a Christian.

Instead of proselyzing you should present some references. Start with justification of a millennia dark age in Europe.

we are done here. I'm not responding to you anymore.

Re: What archaeology is telling us about the real Jesus

#100

Post by selimthegrim » Mon, Apr 10, 2023, 12:53 AM UTC

AlbertCory wrote: post #85

krapp wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Slavery was accepted almost everywhere. Jesus wasn't anti-slavery, because he was a Jew and slavery is directly supported by Jewish law and scripture, sometimes with quotes from God himself. Jesus even commands slaves to obey their masters. >Women were very definitely second-class citizens. Read the Pauline epistles, particularly 1st Timothy. "I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she m…

So you haven't answered my question: what Greek philosopher said anything like what Jesus said (as you understand those sayings)? Your other points are disingenuous at best. The eventual abolition of slavery in England was driven directly by Christian beliefs, however much they'd evolved in the ensuing time. The bit about the Pauline epistles is also disingenuous. You picked one quote. Mary Magdalene was one of the d…

Apollonius of Tyana?