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Ask Wirecutter: Can you recommend a not-smart TV for me?

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Re: Ask Wirecutter: Can you recommend a not-smart TV for me?

#941

Post by qwertfisch »

acchow wrote: post #332
bombcar wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Slamsung smart TV I have is fine, but the UI is noticeablely show as shit even with it never connected to anything (just going to settings for example) which is part and parcel of being "smart" I guess. 99% of the problem with Smart TVs is because of the absolute dog shit UI and the relatively bad HDMI CEC setups they have (at least with mine, if HDMI CEC is on, anytime the TV accidentally or intentionally gets i…

I would suggest avoiding Samsung for TVs. LG is miles ahead. I also have a Hisense Android TV and would avoid any Android TV's.

Miles ahead? Last year I bought a new generation LG (WebOS 22), and its menus are so damn slow. Everything is an app. Open settings to change the picture or something? Yes, please wait five seconds to load the first menu. And then it’s still stuttering and reacting slowly.

Ridiculously bad is the „Home Screen“ (Netflix-like UI with every app and suggestions and so one in one place), which needs even longer to start.

And the worst thing is: all of these internal apps are reloaded EVERY TIME I use them. No preloading, no caching. Everything lags and needs several painful seconds to display.

(And then LG did not even bother to pay some cents for the DTS license so that I am unable to watch movies from USB sticks with DTS audio track, and I would have to convert them to Dolby AC3 first on my computer …)

The LG display is nice, though it’s far from perfect, which is a problem of ALL televion sets, and I don’t know why because _monitors_ on the other hand are always pixel perfect, but televisions seem never be able to get configured pixel-sharp, even with perfect video material. It’s ok for the money I poured into. Just a big screen.

An also bad part of LG is the lack of apps and the control LG holds over the store. There isn’t even a web browser available, just the crappy thing from LG built-in, which does not even have all TLS certificates. I wish I had bought a TV with Android.

Re: Ask Wirecutter: Can you recommend a not-smart TV for me?

#942

Post by qwertfisch »

nr2x wrote: post #432
pupdogg wrote: post #133

I've designed and built many such TVs for the commercial/industrial vertical. I am currently working on developing such a TV for the consumer market and launching it under the name DUMBO.TV Let me know your thoughts. Reference pix of 70" industrial display using Samsung LCD panel and in-house LCD controller with physical OSD menu buttons along with IR/RS232 control capability: https://imgur.com/a/k6zrH3s

The problem is any TV is smart-free if you don’t give it the WiFi password (as article points out), so I’m not sure why’d I pay more for something that would be harder to sell second hand later on? Personally my TV is offline with an AppleTV for streaming.

Modern Samsung TVs don’t even let you change any settings if you don’t provide Internet access and accept the TOS. Only thing possible is changing channels and volume.

(Yes, that restriction includes changing the HDMI source for your Apple TV. Simply not possible without.)

Re: Ask Wirecutter: Can you recommend a not-smart TV for me?

#943

Post by sn0wf1re »

cweagans wrote: post #919
tmm wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be great. My main issue with smart TVs isn't the network connectivity, its their horrible UI. The menus are universally confusing, slow and poorly thought-out. And because these TVs have to have some complicated OS to run all this stuff, they're slow to start up. My AppleTV goes from standby to on faster than my circa 2008[1] (only kinda smart) TV and receiver are ready to display an image. The AppleTV sho…

Personally, I explicitly do not want a tuner in a TV. I would much rather feed that through my existing system and have the TV be as dumb as possible -- I literally just want a display. Down-facing connections are a must . I also don't want anything except a power button -- no channel, volume, menu, etc. I don't want crappy TV speakers and I'd really rather not have an OSD. I would love a display where I could fire u…

Eh, menu for basic colour calibration would be nice, doesn't need CEC for that though. I do agree with throwing out the speakers, many people have at least a sound bar and those that don't are unlikely to want this product (That market wants all in ones). I also agree with the tuner, there would be no DVR, signal filtering, etc on the TV but those may be desirable and would therefore require an external tuner anyways.

Re: Ask Wirecutter: Can you recommend a not-smart TV for me?

#944

Post by kjs3 »

Godel_unicode wrote: post #673
1101010010 wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Networks with no password and no captive sign in portal are extremely rare nowadays. In my suburban-American experience, they are in fact they are more common these days as more consumers purchase and own ISP-provided equipment. > But also are there any actual confirmed cases of TVs doing this? Given the nature of proprietary closed source software, I am willing to accept a less than charitable assumption of what t…

Which ISPs are giving out APs with no key needed and no captive portal? Every one that I’m aware of requires some manner of secret to login to the shared AP.

Why would you think LG/Samsung/Sony/etc don't have corp creds for every ISP AP on the planet?

Re: Ask Wirecutter: Can you recommend a not-smart TV for me?

#945

Post by TheHappyOddish »

jrockway wrote: post #242
bee_rider wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d tend to assume that any data collected would be uploaded opportunistically whenever an internet connection was available.

I think you'd have to write a DNS server where you choose what to return NXDOMAIN for. So updates.samsung.com, sure, let it connect, but spying.samsung.com, block. (Obviously, do not allow connections to any IP addresses you haven't yet approved, which you approve by manually retrieving the DNS entries.) This can be defeated with DoH, or by different business units inside the company cooperating to use the same domai…

A squid proxy is a much easier solution, whitelist only.

Video codec upgrades and software processing are nice things to have and often worth the update.

Re: Ask Wirecutter: Can you recommend a not-smart TV for me?

#946

Post by robomartin »

amelius wrote: post #794
tmm wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be great. My main issue with smart TVs isn't the network connectivity, its their horrible UI. The menus are universally confusing, slow and poorly thought-out. And because these TVs have to have some complicated OS to run all this stuff, they're slow to start up. My AppleTV goes from standby to on faster than my circa 2008[1] (only kinda smart) TV and receiver are ready to display an image. The AppleTV sho…

I'm still looking for a monitor that can switch between inputs within 50ms. Should be possible, no?

> switch between inputs within 50ms

Why do you need this?

What kinds of inputs?

How many?

Are they all operating at the same resolution and frame rate?

What resolutions?

Do they require scaling? De-interlacing?

Are they synchronized? (genlock)

Re: Ask Wirecutter: Can you recommend a not-smart TV for me?

#948

Post by IIsi50MHz »

pupdogg wrote: post #568
tmm wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be great. My main issue with smart TVs isn't the network connectivity, its their horrible UI. The menus are universally confusing, slow and poorly thought-out. And because these TVs have to have some complicated OS to run all this stuff, they're slow to start up. My AppleTV goes from standby to on faster than my circa 2008[1] (only kinda smart) TV and receiver are ready to display an image. The AppleTV sho…

This is a very good and comprehensive list. Thank you! Our industrial displays already have most of your "must-haves," except for three: 1. Professional color calibration - this is doable, but it adds significant cost. When referring to color calibration, it is not the typical marketing gimmick used for consumer displays, but instead something equivalent to what you would get with Sony's BVM-HX310 reference monitor.…

> So, my question would be what level of professional color calibration is acceptable?

Naively, I'd say… Delta-E <5. Asus ProArt monitors originally shipped with that, and could be calibrated by the user to Delta-E <2; afte a while, Asus simply started shipping them them with the latter.

Re: Ask Wirecutter: Can you recommend a not-smart TV for me?

#949

Post by babypuncher »

pupdogg wrote: post #284
babypuncher wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VRR is short for variable refresh rate, a feature added with HDMI 2.1.It's useful for video games, as it means they do not have to deliver frames perfectly in sync with the display's fixed refresh rate in order to present a smooth experience. I mention G-Sync/Freesync certification, because it is all too common for VRR-capable displays to only do the bare-minimum to meet the HDMI 2.1 spec otherwise. Dolby Vision and…

I'll talk this over with our firmware designer. I believe most of the things you're asking for come standard as part of the HDMI2.1 spec and the latest spec seems to be HDMI2.1a. As of right now, we are only compliant up to HDMI2.0 due to the nature of our commercial market. They prefer reliability over cutting edge. However, I don't see updating to the new spec as a major issue. High-end FPGAs have really come down…

That's great to hear.

Don't just do the bare minimum VRR support to be HDMI 2.1 compliant though. The spec only requires a very narrow VRR window. Lots of cheaper devices make this window 48 to 60 hz, even when the display itself supports fixed refresh rates up to 120 hz. VRR should work anywhere from 30 all the way up to the maximum refresh rate supported by the TV. That is why I mentioned the G-Sync/Freesync Premium certifications.

Re: Ask Wirecutter: Can you recommend a not-smart TV for me?

#950

Post by chaostheory »

nicolas_t wrote: post #847
chaostheory wrote: post #823

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know why this isn’t the answer. I’m sure there will be some people who will bring up, “but it will connect to an open wifi network” argument; but that isn’t common in many places and it still will probably force you to agree to terms and conditions which the TV won’t be able to do. Also what many people have missed is that the promise of data collection revenue is what has made TVs unbelievably cheap. It’s cr…

It's not the answer because some TVs from some companies Hi-Sense will keep complaining that they aren't connected, interrupting whatever you're watching.

I own two Hisense TVs. Not all of their models do that. Just keep returning cheap TVs until you get one that doesn’t do that.

If not buy a giant computer monitor. It’ll be easier to find and will be close in price to a dumb TV

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