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VsVim

visualstudiogallery.msdn.microsoft.com

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Re: VsVim

#41

Post by jugglingnutcase »

germano wrote: post #2

If there's anyone out there comfortable in both the way of vi and the way of Emacs, does this feel better than the Emacs emulation [1]? I'd love to be able to work with text more efficiently in Visual Studio, but the Emacs emulation feels only half way there. [1] http://visualstudiogallery.msdn.microsoft.com/09dc58c4-6f47-...

i used to use the emacs emulation and i agree with you, it only felt halfway. Also, Jared seems way more responsive than the emacs people. i filed a few bug reports and saw few status updates or general updates. After feeling frustrated with that and the half-baked feel i switched to Vim and found VsVim. i've been really happy and havent looked back.

Re: VsVim

#43

Post by thurn »

greyfade wrote: post #27
johnfn wrote: post #4

This seems to be a part of a nascent trend in IDEs. There's vrapper and eclim for eclipse, Vintage for Sublime Text, and now this as well. I've seen a lot of arguments about how people don't use IDEs because vim/emacs are better, and I always felt they were misguided. I see the feature sets of vim/emacs and your common IDE as nearly disjoint sets, and I couldn't be happier to see the good parts of the two editors bei…

I'm still having trouble seeing the value of an IDE. When programming, all I'm doing is editing text and occasionally running an external program. what does an IDE have that makes it so valuable? (Honest question! I've used IDEs in the past - MSVC, Eclipse, NetBeans, Anjuta, Code::Blocks, and several others - and found that the generally poor editors made it more difficult to program.)

I find them most valuable in a larger codebase. The project I work on at Google is millions of lines of Java. I'm an Emacs user by preference, but a lot of my job isn't writing code, it's discovering and using the existing abstractions. For that part of my job, Eclipse serves my needs a lot better.

Re: VsVim

#44

Post by lincolnq »

palish wrote: post #33
Stasyan wrote: post #16

I use this plugin everyday. It's got some serious bugs that make my heart stop. The biggest one is Undo. Looks like the plugin keeps it's own list of modifications that were performed. So when sometimes I press "u" to undo the latest change - Visual Studio gets suspended for a minute or two, and all my changes that I did since I opened Visual Studio (could be a day or a week) are pretty much gone. The work around is…

That is absolutely horrible. There's no reason to subject yourself to that. Use this instead: http://www.viemu.com/ I've been a happy ViEmu customer for... Hmm... Three years? Maybe a little longer. Anyway, it's just perfect.

Seconded. ViEmu is better. Use that instead. It's easily worth the $99.

Re: VsVim

#45

Post by spwmoni »

lincolnq wrote: post #44
palish wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is absolutely horrible. There's no reason to subject yourself to that. Use this instead: http://www.viemu.com/ I've been a happy ViEmu customer for... Hmm... Three years? Maybe a little longer. Anyway, it's just perfect.

Seconded. ViEmu is better. Use that instead. It's easily worth the $99.

Thirded.

Re: VsVim

#46

Post by [deleted] »

jcfrei wrote: post #25
ch0wn wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't Eclim the other way around? I thought it would include features from Eclipse in Vim rather than bringing key Vim keybindings to Eclipse. There are several plugins for the latter though, like Vrapper[0] or ViPlugin[1]. There were also attempts to integrate a whole native Vim instance into eclipse[2]. [0] http://vrapper.sourceforge.net/home/ [1] http://www.viplugin.com/viplugin/ [2] http://sourceforge.net/project…

check their page; what I meant specifically was the ability to run vim inside of eclipse.

[deleted]

Re: VsVim

#47

Post by spwmoni »

jcfrei wrote: post #25
ch0wn wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't Eclim the other way around? I thought it would include features from Eclipse in Vim rather than bringing key Vim keybindings to Eclipse. There are several plugins for the latter though, like Vrapper[0] or ViPlugin[1]. There were also attempts to integrate a whole native Vim instance into eclipse[2]. [0] http://vrapper.sourceforge.net/home/ [1] http://www.viplugin.com/viplugin/ [2] http://sourceforge.net/project…

check their page; what I meant specifically was the ability to run vim inside of eclipse.

"The primary goal of eclim is to bring Eclipse functionality to the Vim editor." Maybe you're talking about vimplugin, which eclim uses a fork of to embed gvim in eclipse?

Re: VsVim

#48

Post by campnic »

johnfn wrote: post #4

This seems to be a part of a nascent trend in IDEs. There's vrapper and eclim for eclipse, Vintage for Sublime Text, and now this as well. I've seen a lot of arguments about how people don't use IDEs because vim/emacs are better, and I always felt they were misguided. I see the feature sets of vim/emacs and your common IDE as nearly disjoint sets, and I couldn't be happier to see the good parts of the two editors bei…

Wow, vrapper is what I've always wanted. Thanks for posting this. Its always amazing to me when some part of someones comment really changes my daily development. This is one of those times!

Re: VsVim

#49

Post by zem »

dkarl wrote: post #19
johnfn wrote: post #4

This seems to be a part of a nascent trend in IDEs. There's vrapper and eclim for eclipse, Vintage for Sublime Text, and now this as well. I've seen a lot of arguments about how people don't use IDEs because vim/emacs are better, and I always felt they were misguided. I see the feature sets of vim/emacs and your common IDE as nearly disjoint sets, and I couldn't be happier to see the good parts of the two editors bei…

IDEs are terrible text editors. Text editors are terrible IDEs. I can't wait until people figure out how to graft good text editors and good IDEs together. One way to do that is to provide IDE functionality as an external service to the text editor. There's a Scala editing package for Emacs called Ensime that uses the Scala presentation compiler, a service that runs in the background. Every time Ensime is asked to co…

the kde vim part was a valiant attempt to do just that. sadly it didn't work out, and its intended replacement, yzis, didn't either.

for a good overview at the history of vim integration, check out http://www.freehackers.org/VimIntegration

the only really good one i've seen is jvi [http://jvi.sourceforge.net/], which is a straight-up port of vim to java as a netbeans plugin. emacs's evil mode [https://gitorious.org/evil/pages/Home] is getting there too.

Re: VsVim

#50

Post by HalibetLector »

greyfade wrote: post #27
johnfn wrote: post #4

This seems to be a part of a nascent trend in IDEs. There's vrapper and eclim for eclipse, Vintage for Sublime Text, and now this as well. I've seen a lot of arguments about how people don't use IDEs because vim/emacs are better, and I always felt they were misguided. I see the feature sets of vim/emacs and your common IDE as nearly disjoint sets, and I couldn't be happier to see the good parts of the two editors bei…

I'm still having trouble seeing the value of an IDE. When programming, all I'm doing is editing text and occasionally running an external program. what does an IDE have that makes it so valuable? (Honest question! I've used IDEs in the past - MSVC, Eclipse, NetBeans, Anjuta, Code::Blocks, and several others - and found that the generally poor editors made it more difficult to program.)

I've been told by IDE users that a large part of why they use IDEs is just how much work it can do for you without you having to think about it. Need to change a class name that gets referenced hundreds of places throughout a project? Project-wide search and replace! Can't figure out what the string of 4 integer parameters to a function are? Just hover over it with a mouse and the IDE will tell you! Some IDEs even go so far as to create code for you using templates. And then there's always interactive debugging.

But, all this wonder comes with a price. For me, the key reasons I prefer vim to any ide out there is:

1) speed. compared to vim + bash, every ide is slow. 2) code portability. I work with lots of different languages on a daily basis and having to switch from Eclipse (java) to Monodevelop (C#) to whatever the http/css/php du jour is these days. 3) IDE maintenance. No matter what you use, ides have a ton of setup overhead just for the specifics of the project you're working on, let alone if you want to customize the environment. 4) fragility. Vim + bash rarely breaks or leaves me unable to work on a project. I have been left high and dry by IDEs multiple times. All it takes is a coworker checking in personal changes to a team-wide project file. Then you're left in a broken state, figuring out what went wrong.

so, there are some pros and cons. Everybody's style is different and there are real advantages to both approaches.

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