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‘Alien calculus’ could save particle physics from infinities

quantamagazine.org

41–50 of 132 posts

Re: ‘Alien calculus’ could save particle physics from infinities

#41
post #12

Sincere question: could it be that the underlying structure of the universe is really simple but since we have no idea what it is we have to use exotic mathematics for it?

The universe could be simpler than the current models suggest, but that would require taking a step back too far for the comfort of today’s STEM-oriented mind. For as long as natural sciences consider philosophy a load of hand-wavy abstract inapplicable hogwash they will be stuck iterating on existing physical models towards local maximum.

Can you give an example of your philosophy physics being applied to a real world problem?

Re: ‘Alien calculus’ could save particle physics from infinities

#42
Fyi, this is from the french. "Alien" is a bad translation. The better word is "stranger". Alien just sounds more scifi, akin to how "alien hand syndrome" is the more scifi translation of le mans etrangers, which is best translated as "stranger's hand".

https://www.webmd.com/brain/what-is-alien-hand-syndrome

Re: ‘Alien calculus’ could save particle physics from infinities

#43
post #14

Is the implication that each nonperturbative term represents a specific kind of field interaction? Thus would there be a finite set of nonperturbative terms that, if exhaustively found, would render the trans-series convergent?

That's an interesting idea but I think if it was the case, the article would have said so. What I got from it is that they haven't even got this to work in anything except for simplified toy universes. So I doubt anyone can answer your question yet.

Re: ‘Alien calculus’ could save particle physics from infinities

#44
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some think the underlying structure of the universe is mathematics. That is, the universe isn’t merely describe by mathematics, but it is a mathematical structure.

I see mathematics as a rigorous highly consistent descriptive language. Physics theories expressed mathematically are very precise descriptions of observed behaviour, but calling them laws is deceptive. The fact that they align precisely to observed behaviour just indicates that the behaviour of physical systems is highly consistent. Well, I hope so. If reality was inconsistent and things happened arbitrarily with no…

Typically in physics we derive laws from principles. For example, the law of conservation of momentum is derived from the principle of translation invariance.

Nobody calls the Standard Model a law, for example. The modern view is that the Standard Model is a low-energy effective field theory.

But, whatever supplants the SM, we still expect the principle of translation invariance to hold.

Until, that is, we have evidence for a paradigm shift. If we discover physics that really can't be described, for example, by dynamics happening in a geometric space, then we'll have to give up that principle. Strongly-coupled stringy dynamics seems to have non-geometric phases, for example.

So our statement of laws is more a description of the current best paradigm (say, the operating system), rather than our best model (the program).

Re: ‘Alien calculus’ could save particle physics from infinities

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The universe could be simpler than the current models suggest, but that would require taking a step back too far for the comfort of today’s STEM-oriented mind. For as long as natural sciences consider philosophy a load of hand-wavy abstract inapplicable hogwash they will be stuck iterating on existing physical models towards local maximum.

Can you give an example of your philosophy physics being applied to a real world problem?

What do you mean by “philosophy physics”?

Apart from that, I hope upon some reflection you realize that your sentence is an illustration of my point.

Re: ‘Alien calculus’ could save particle physics from infinities

#46
post #32

Can those Feymann diagrams be calculated by a computer? I understand that it raises expotentially, but why the 891 and 320 thousand diagrams cannot be solved by some tool?

Yes, but you very quickly run out of steam.

Moreover, we know the perturbative series does not converge for many theories.

For QED, for example, the radius of convergence must be 0, by an argument due to Dyson. Roughly:

1. The perturbative series is an analytic function of the fine structure constant α, which is proportional to the electron charge squared.

2. Like charges repel and therefore α>0. If like charges attracted the vacuum would be unstable against the continuous creation of electron-positron pairs from the vacuum and the electrons going to one part of the universe and the positrons to the other.

3. Because of this instability the series converges for no α0 either.

Re: ‘Alien calculus’ could save particle physics from infinities

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give an example of your philosophy physics being applied to a real world problem?

What do you mean by “philosophy physics”? Apart from that, I hope upon some reflection you realize that your sentence is an illustration of my point.

I reflected and I have no idea what you're talking about, since all you said was "physics is wrong" while giving no evidence.

Re: ‘Alien calculus’ could save particle physics from infinities

#48
post #18
post #12

Sincere question: could it be that the underlying structure of the universe is really simple but since we have no idea what it is we have to use exotic mathematics for it?

That’s quite possible. A lot of what we think of as fundamental physics might turn out to be emergent behaviour. In fact that’s pretty much the story of the development of physics. It turns out Newtonian mechanics is emergent from Relativity. Maxwells equations are emergent from quantum mechanics. The behaviour of bosons is emergent from the behaviour of quarks. As I understand it there are theoretical reasons to sus…

> The behaviour of _bosons_ is emergent from the behaviour of quarks.

I think you mean

> The behaviour of _hadrons_ is emergent from the behaviour of quarks.

--

Anyway, back to your main idea, the problem is that most of the times the new underlaying theory is even worse than the original one

> Newtonian mechanics is emergent from Relativity

For Newtonian Mechanics you need only basic calculus. For General Relativity you need curvature, tensors, two definitions of derivatives and other nasty stuff. [I never saw the details, but it's in my todo list.]

> Maxwells equations are emergent from quantum mechanics

Well, electromagnetism is just the local gauge invariance of the U(1) group. The idea is very simple but each word in that sentence needs like one semester to be decoded. [I saw the calculations a long time ago. I don't remember the details, but I remember the general idea. I wrote a comment with a oversimplified version https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8189346 )

> there are theoretical reasons to suspect that quarks do not have any decomposition though.

My favorite reason is that for a classic small ball, the ratio of the magnetic moment to the inertia moment is 1 (once you fix some nasty details about units), but for an elementary quantum particle it is 2. For composite particles, there is no theoretical value. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-factor_(physics)

The experimental value for protons is 5.5 and for Neutrons is 3.8, that is not surprising because we are sure they are composed particles.

For Electrons and Muons it's slightly more than 2, but we understand that difference quite well (but not perfectly, and that is related to the main point of the article here).

I don't think it has been measured directly for Quarks, but my guess is that it's used in some parts of the calculation of some Feynman diagrams, and if it were very different from 2 someone would have noticed.

Re: ‘Alien calculus’ could save particle physics from infinities

#49
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m just a computer guy, but I also see that as likely. When it comes down to it there’s less than 100 elements, made of a handful of forces and subatomic particles that make up the incredible universe that we live in. It seems somehow to get simpler as you go down. Until you hit all the quantum weirdness and then it’s all wave functions and probabilities. That maybe comes out of something simple as well.

The first fundamental step in any physics model (or theory) is to separate the easily describable "laws" from the almost impossible to describe "state". The perhaps surprising question is why anything at all can be separated but if that wasn't the case, we wouldn't be having this conversation. "Going down" simply means identifying laws that are more universal in that they can underly models of different systems, idea…

> Quantum weirdness isn't significantly harder mathematically than what came before (we don't have an objective measure of how "hard" some piece of math is), it's just harder to relate to everyday experience.

We absolutely have a way to measure how hard a piece of math is: computational complexity. And quantum mecanichs is more computationally complex than newtonian mechanics (while general relativity is significantly harder still than both of them).

Re: ‘Alien calculus’ could save particle physics from infinities

#50

Fyi, this is from the french. "Alien" is a bad translation. The better word is "stranger". Alien just sounds more scifi, akin to how "alien hand syndrome" is the more scifi translation of le mans etrangers, which is best translated as "stranger's hand". https://www.webmd.com/brain/what-is-alien-hand-syndrome

Or perhaps better "foreigner", legal alien, someone from over the border.

The alien derivative is an operation which moves you from one sector to another. A bit like crossing a branch cut.

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