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How our tribute to “The Hacker Way” pissed off a Facebook designer

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Re: How our tribute to “The Hacker Way” pissed off a Facebook designer

#21

Post by j_c »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #17
j_c wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you not see this as immoral and disrespectful to the original artist?

Not really. As far as I can tell, the original artist wasn't selling his works, right? And apologies in advance to all the designers reading this, but the posters are a sentence fragment in a standard font. They're not printing off bootleg copies of the Mona Lisa here. I suppose I'm being immoral and disrespectful, myself. Should I send Dos Equis a letter of apology, see if KC Green sells prints of his comics, and tr…

"But the posters are a sentence fragment in a standard font. They're not printing off bootleg copies of the Mona Lisa here."

---

A 63-year-old Picasso got out his pen and paper and sketched the woman, who passing by had asked for a quick self-portrait of herself.

It took him 30 seconds, once finished, he asked for 500,000 US dollars.

'Why? It didn't even take you a minute!' she replied.

'Madam, that sketch took 63 years."

And off he walked, with the sketch in his pocket.

Re: How our tribute to “The Hacker Way” pissed off a Facebook designer

#22

Post by j_c »

emp_ wrote: post #19
j_c wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good artists copy, greats artists steal and make that they've stolen their own. We are all influenced by the same things, it's what you do with that influence that matters.

Why do I think that by your tone and anonymity you are the offended designer?

I'm a designer (and developer, depending on the task).

Not the designer.

Re: How our tribute to “The Hacker Way” pissed off a Facebook designer

#23

Post by [deleted] »

j_c wrote: post #21
pavel_lishin wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. As far as I can tell, the original artist wasn't selling his works, right? And apologies in advance to all the designers reading this, but the posters are a sentence fragment in a standard font. They're not printing off bootleg copies of the Mona Lisa here. I suppose I'm being immoral and disrespectful, myself. Should I send Dos Equis a letter of apology, see if KC Green sells prints of his comics, and tr…

"But the posters are a sentence fragment in a standard font. They're not printing off bootleg copies of the Mona Lisa here." --- A 63-year-old Picasso got out his pen and paper and sketched the woman, who passing by had asked for a quick self-portrait of herself. It took him 30 seconds, once finished, he asked for 500,000 US dollars. 'Why? It didn't even take you a minute!' she replied. 'Madam, that sketch took 63 ye…

[deleted]

Re: How our tribute to “The Hacker Way” pissed off a Facebook designer

#24

Post by jrockway »

The key to successfully using the Internet is to ignore people that type in all caps. Everyone hates everything; no matter what you do, someone is going to claim that it is ruining their life. The key is to ignore them and do what you think is right.

Making a sign that you saw in a photograph is not much different from sticking a clever caption on a picture of Homer Simpson. No, you didn't create the sign or the Homer Simpson character. But that doesn't mean it's not cool or funny.

Re: How our tribute to “The Hacker Way” pissed off a Facebook designer

#25

Post by jrockway »

mbrzuzy wrote: post #4

Am I missing something here? Are they mad that they use their tag line, "Stay focused & keep shipping"? Because the design of the actual poster is different.

Yes, that's what they're mad about. It's the Internet. People are mad about everything.

Re: How our tribute to “The Hacker Way” pissed off a Facebook designer

#26

Post by HectorRamos »

catshirt wrote: post #15

i can't even see the problem here if they were selling them for $0 profit. let's assume for a second they sold them for $5 each and that is the actual cost of production. would ben show the same hostility to individuals who spent $5 to make the poster for themselves? that said, i'd think it was a silly response even if they were selling it for profit. do you really want to focus your creative energy defending your au…

Even at 0 profit, you could say they were stealing profits away from the original author. However, they are not for sale anywhere in their original form. I'd like them to either actually put them up for sale, or encourage others to print them out, but I'd have to respect the original designer's decision not to see his work being duplicated elsewhere.

Re: How our tribute to “The Hacker Way” pissed off a Facebook designer

#27

Post by imajes »

Hey.

As the hacker behind the version at http://print.imaj.es/ - I figured I'd share my response here too.

Ben's response is understandable - designers and hackers alike are proud of their creations and often are quick and strong-willed in defending their work.

However, the project that he's been running internally at FB itself aped the original British Ministry of Information project during wartime - the keep calm and carry on meme.

Ben's sentiment to keep focused is good. It's so good that when I saw it, I felt a resonance, a reminder that I should be shipping - so that I wanted to right there and then, make it, produce it, ship it.

So I went to work with my (legal) copies of illustrator and photoshop, and crafted my version. (see it here: http://print.imaj.es/products/stay-focused).

The comparison ends here, though. I took the sentence, sure.

But my process is letterpress, with really awesome paper, all made by hand (by me) locally.

So, I think at this point there's a valid conversation about what is art, what is originality, and how that can be defined - my work can easily be seen as derivative, implied.

I don't make a comparison here with Andy Warhol (who's work will far outstrip anything I'll ever make creatively), but Ben's argument here extends to the notion that Warhol's Campbell's soup work is theft; whereas many others (myself included) see it as a valid expression of the modernity the cans represented. I see the poster as a valid expression of the notion of being a developer-entrepreneur, of needing to keep on the track and ship - a mantra we can all live by.

Ben accused me of theft, suggesting I should donate profits to charity. He used language such as this being a rip-off, and worse.

I have thought about it and frankly I don't see it as theft, but as the normal course of art. Theft would be to make it and not reference the original - to ignore the ancestry and pretend it doesn't exist.

And, for the record, I'll donate any profits to charity- if there are any. As it stands, there's little chance the project will even get printed, as there is not yet sufficient orders.

Re: How our tribute to “The Hacker Way” pissed off a Facebook designer

#28

Post by irondavycole »

catshirt wrote: post #15

i can't even see the problem here if they were selling them for $0 profit. let's assume for a second they sold them for $5 each and that is the actual cost of production. would ben show the same hostility to individuals who spent $5 to make the poster for themselves? that said, i'd think it was a silly response even if they were selling it for profit. do you really want to focus your creative energy defending your au…

Promoting their own event is not without self-interest, even if the poster sales aren't directly profitable.

Also, it's not authorship over "red on white" as a concept, it's authorship over this specific combination of type, size, layout, & copy that implies association with Facebook. If they just wanted to maintain the message, and not the association, they wouldn't have kept the visual style. Implying an association (with Facebook, or Ben) that isn't really there is the dishonest part.

Re: How our tribute to “The Hacker Way” pissed off a Facebook designer

#29

Post by [deleted] »

irondavycole wrote: post #28
catshirt wrote: post #15

i can't even see the problem here if they were selling them for $0 profit. let's assume for a second they sold them for $5 each and that is the actual cost of production. would ben show the same hostility to individuals who spent $5 to make the poster for themselves? that said, i'd think it was a silly response even if they were selling it for profit. do you really want to focus your creative energy defending your au…

Promoting their own event is not without self-interest, even if the poster sales aren't directly profitable. Also, it's not authorship over "red on white" as a concept, it's authorship over this specific combination of type, size, layout, & copy that implies association with Facebook. If they just wanted to maintain the message, and not the association, they wouldn't have kept the visual style. Implying an associatio…

[deleted]

Re: How our tribute to “The Hacker Way” pissed off a Facebook designer

#30

Post by petercooper »

imajes wrote: post #27

Hey. As the hacker behind the version at http://print.imaj.es/ - I figured I'd share my response here too. Ben's response is understandable - designers and hackers alike are proud of their creations and often are quick and strong-willed in defending their work. However, the project that he's been running internally at FB itself aped the original British Ministry of Information project during wartime - the keep calm a…

Quite right, sir. But this gives me an idea for a different poster you could make which I think both you and many Hacker News users would appreciate seeing every day:

"Don't let the bastards grind you down."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegitimi_non_carborundum

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