Live data from Hacker News

DevOps uses a capability model, not a maturity model

octopus.com

91–100 of 115 posts

Re: DevOps uses a capability model, not a maturity model

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost as though there should be a “Capability Maturity Model.” Man, I wish someone had come up with that 40 years ago.

My only exposure was CMMI. Your comment gave me flashbacks. It made a lot of consultants a lot of money, that’s for sure. It was also a good way for federal acquisitions officials to steer contracts to preferred vendors, few of whom were able to deliver quality products on time.

./configure;make;make install ?

Re: DevOps uses a capability model, not a maturity model

#92

DevOps as a movement died when it started being used as a job title. In my experience, it quickly stopped being a philosophy for Dev and Ops teams to work on working better together and just because a new name for System Administrator. Before the popularity of the term "DevOps" it was always true that any System Administrator worth hiring knew how to script for automation (the job title for people who didn't was Syst…

It's like saying "hacking" disappeared when it started being used as a crime.

Hackers that fiddles with stuff still definitely exist.

The same way the DevOps movement still exists.

But your point is not invalid, hiring a "DevOps" engineer is futile; especially given how the goal of any engineer in charge of DevOps should be to render their job obsolete.

Re: DevOps uses a capability model, not a maturity model

#93
One of the very first point the book Accelerate (which I really recommend reading since it gives you the ammunition to sell DevOps culture to your coworkers and leaders) hammers this point early on.

Maturity models quickly devolves into cargo cults and of course making metrics a goal makes these metrics useless.

What really matter are meaningful capabilities, which when read aloud it just feels so obvious.

Re: DevOps uses a capability model, not a maturity model

#94
post #32

What upsets me about devops work is that everything I do at a client is a lineage of architecture and design that needs to be maintained going forward and it only exists at that client. The lineage of interesting or useful things I do are tied to the client and dies with that client or when I leave. I just think of the thousands of CI/CD systems, build systems, attempts at parallelising builds, impressive optimisatio…

What upsets me about DevOps, is I know ops pretty well, but am not on par with dev, and every job that just needs someone to ops work now wants to quiz me about O(n) before they'll interview. Then I look around at the people who are good at the Dev part and the don't know their way around an os or cloud infra.

Big O is kind of a valid question for ops in terms of response time versus load.

Re: DevOps uses a capability model, not a maturity model

#95

DevOps as a movement died when it started being used as a job title. In my experience, it quickly stopped being a philosophy for Dev and Ops teams to work on working better together and just because a new name for System Administrator. Before the popularity of the term "DevOps" it was always true that any System Administrator worth hiring knew how to script for automation (the job title for people who didn't was Syst…

> a new name for System Administrator System Administrator responsibility is limited to...adminstration/operation. If you have "DevOps" positions that have dual responsibility to operate and develop, that it something different, no? --- I'm not saying this is actually the case. But DevOps being a job is not necessarily just a rebranding.

We are saying that this specifically is _not_ the case. The people in DevOps positions typically only operate.

Re: DevOps uses a capability model, not a maturity model

#97
post #70

My challenge to the author is why can't maturity models be dynamic and continually improved. What is being suggested here is too complex and involves a lot of busy work. Why can't you, as part of the process implement a capabilty driven dynamic (as in you review and change it) maturity model? I mean, capability driven sounds great to talk about but how do you go about implementing it? A maturity model is simple to de…

This reminds me how once my then girlfrend's friend brought a textbook from some course she took for MBA degree. We had to wait hours for a train, or our other friend was late... and so having nothing better to do, I tried reading that coursebook. At first, it was hard to work through the terminology, but once you get the hang of it, you realize that if only they used planer language, the whole book could've been refined int a few trite statements. Like... "reward diligent employees and avoid the neglectful ones" and so on.

This post reads about just like that. I wish we had better insight into how to manage processes in programming businesses... but so far I haven't seen anything that truly goes beyond the obvious stuff. The only difference is how much the author is willing to elaborate on that obvious stuff.

Re: DevOps uses a capability model, not a maturity model

#98

DevOps as a movement died when it started being used as a job title. In my experience, it quickly stopped being a philosophy for Dev and Ops teams to work on working better together and just because a new name for System Administrator. Before the popularity of the term "DevOps" it was always true that any System Administrator worth hiring knew how to script for automation (the job title for people who didn't was Syst…

What do you call the people who:

- Use Terraform to build infrastructure as code

- Get involve in containerising applications

- Run and operate Kubernetes

- Spend a lot of time on CI/CD

- Improve the development experience

- Implement service discovery

- Build and run developer platforms

- (To a lesser extent) Build and run cloud environments including Serverless components

This seems like a new set of responsibilities which don’t fit cleanly into Development or Sys Admin, and are substantial enough such that someone could specialise in this role full time.

I think that DevOps as a job title is one of the best things that ever happened to the industry.

Re: DevOps uses a capability model, not a maturity model

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a step in the middle there you missed where it was coopted by software vendors to not be about how you collaborate with others, but which tools you use, and has now become essentially meaningless.

The same happened with the concepts of Agile and UX. But of course the true concepts still live on. It's just that everyone wants to sound like they're using best practice techniques even when they're not.

I have long ago lost my enthusiasm for this stuff, and now I just do it because I need a paycheck.

Re: DevOps uses a capability model, not a maturity model

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My only exposure was CMMI. Your comment gave me flashbacks. It made a lot of consultants a lot of money, that’s for sure. It was also a good way for federal acquisitions officials to steer contracts to preferred vendors, few of whom were able to deliver quality products on time.

./configure;make;make install ?

I wish!

https://www.cmmiinstitute.com/cmmi/intro

Post reply on HN