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My U.S. Border Nightmare

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Re: My U.S. Border Nightmare

#231

Post by wmoxam »

true_religion wrote: post #170
nitrogen wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really do understand what the author went through, and I sympathize. But the reality of the situation is that entering a country where you are not a citizen is not a right, it's a _privilege_. The reality of the situation is that any country that treats its most productive guests in this way won't remain an attractive destination, regardless of whether those guests have the right or privilege of visiting.

I'm wondering when that's going to happen because it seems that the US has always treated people this way since nigh on the beginning of its time. It's one of the few countries in existence with a century-long isolationist movement, and in decade after decade has had anti-immigration sentiment run high for one immigrant group after another.

Not really. The US-Canada border was far easier to cross pre-911. You didn't even need a passport to cross up until 2004.

Re: My U.S. Border Nightmare

#232

Post by huggyface »

krschultz wrote: post #229
huggyface wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recall that the 9/11 terrorists came via the US/Canadian border. Not one of the 9/11 terrorists entered the US from Canada, and it is a startling indictment that there are people still so incredibly ignorant to make this claim. Further the US has one of the most porous borders on the planet, with some 12 million + illegals within its confines right now. They didn't get there from Canada -- they flew directly in from…

Excuse me, it was Ahmed Ressam. So just a terrorist, not a 9/11 terrorist. I guess that completely negates my point right?

It is an incredible mistake to make, so yes it does bring your perspective into question. Especially given that this story has absolutely nothing to do with "catching terrorists" -- even the most paranoid interpretation wouldn't go down that route -- and everything to do with immigration thinking he was going to be a lazy layabout who would end up working illegally in the US (or worse would end up resorting to petty crime to support himself)

Re: My U.S. Border Nightmare

#233

Post by wmoxam »

maxerickson wrote: post #49
mafro wrote: post #30

Having been born in the UK and travelled to Europe a lot, jeez do we get it easy there. You can drive across ten countries in a month and have nobody blink twice. They see the coat of arms on the UK passport and just wave you through. The one time I did go to America was precisely through the port the OP did - from Niagara into Buffalo. I got asked some pretty awkward questions and made to feel quite uncomfortable -…

It's just different. The lower 48 is roughly twice the size of the Schengen area, without any border control anywhere. Throw in Mexico, Canada and Alaska and you are up to 6 times the area, with 3 borders (and the Canada-Alaska border is sort of its own thing). "It's a big place" doesn't really relate back to border control policy, but the borders of the U.S. and Canada aren't really all that similar to the borders o…

"the borders of the U.S. and Canada aren't really all that similar to the borders of countries like the Netherlands or Spain"

They used to be.

Re: My U.S. Border Nightmare

#234

Post by [deleted] »

wmoxam wrote: post #231
true_religion wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm wondering when that's going to happen because it seems that the US has always treated people this way since nigh on the beginning of its time. It's one of the few countries in existence with a century-long isolationist movement, and in decade after decade has had anti-immigration sentiment run high for one immigrant group after another.

Not really. The US-Canada border was far easier to cross pre-911. You didn't even need a passport to cross up until 2004.

[deleted]

Re: My U.S. Border Nightmare

#236

Post by harshreality »

scott_s wrote: post #228
harshreality wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Stanford Prison Experiment seems to contradict your claim that normal people can't/won't be conditioned to develop hostility in "us vs them" scenarios.

You agree with him, but you apparently don't realize it. What you said is another way of saying that the poor treatment is probably institutional.

I do not agree that a military, ex-military, border agent, or other law-enforcement agent's inherent personality can be separated from his personality "on the job".

All sorts of executive-branch military or law enforcement posts seem to encourage "us vs them" thinking, while shifting the bright line in the "us" direction. Accepted norms become narrower, while "the other" becomes correspondingly broader.

That change is not confined to on-the-job attitudes and behaviors.

Re: My U.S. Border Nightmare

#237

Post by DanielBMarkham »

I'm filing this in a long list of "be careful about crossing borders" articles.

Seriously folks, this isn't like walking to the corner grocery. Know what documents to have, what to say, how to act -- everything -- before you cross the border. There are lots of people who get paid everyday to "protect" their country, and they would like nothing more than to have an excuse to fuck with you.

Now you may not like that. I do not like that at all. As an American, I really wish we could be more friendly about these things. I love my country and am proud of it, but I am also ashamed about it in many ways. This is one of them. But whether we like it or not or whether we're ashamed of it or not -- you still gotta know what the hell you are doing when you go to cross a border.

I wish I could upvote this, but sadly it's just too much like a bunch of other articles.

Re: My U.S. Border Nightmare

#238

Post by omgsean »

ajays wrote: post #87
pyre wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will add an anecdote here. I have crossed the US-Canada land border many times. I've only ever been 'chewed out' by Canadian Border Patrol once . I've had this happen multiple times from the US Border Patrol and I'm a US citizen. The Canadian Border Patrol has always been calm, patient and understanding in my experience. The US border patrol is hit-or-miss. Some people are nice ( once I was only asked two questions…

I've crossed into Canada numerous times. On the Buffalo border, if you basically said "I'm going to the casino" or "I'm going to the strip clubs", they just waived you right in. On the way back, depending on the person at the booth, it could either be a stern questioning, or a waive through. You learned to guess the demeanor of the agents by looking at the lines of cars; if one line was moving very slowly, it was bes…

Sundowners fan, eh?

Re: My U.S. Border Nightmare

#240

Post by alphakappa »

pyre wrote: post #26
potatolicious wrote: post #8

Author seems a bit naive about international sovereignty, though I suppose one can't exactly blame him for it. I grew up in Vancouver, a stone's throw from the border, so I suppose I take it for granted that we all learn very early on that CBP is a wretched hive of scum and villainy, and everyone knows someone who was chewed out, berated, and generally treated like a criminal by them. Seeing as how I work in the US n…

I will add an anecdote here. I have crossed the US-Canada land border many times. I've only ever been 'chewed out' by Canadian Border Patrol once . I've had this happen multiple times from the US Border Patrol and I'm a US citizen. The Canadian Border Patrol has always been calm, patient and understanding in my experience. The US border patrol is hit-or-miss. Some people are nice ( once I was only asked two questions…

While we are adding anecdotes - my experience has been the opposite. While trying to enter Canada (Vancouver), the Canadian border guy asked me and my friends all kinds of detailed questions (How long do you know each other, how do you know this guy etc) Entering the US was as simple as looking at my passport and waving me through. (The only time I've been asked a bunch of questions while trying to enter the US was when I was walking across the border from Mexico)
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