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Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

economist.com

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Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#351

Post by gdy »

jnsaff2 wrote: post #344
gdy wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"russia can fuck off from Ukraine any time it wants and the war will be over immediately" You mean leaving the people of the Crimea, DNR and LNR to the mercy of nationalistic Ukraine?

Saving the people of occupied territories from russian rape, murder, forceful deportation, looting of property, etc.

That's not how the life is in Crimea. Ukraine was 'saving' Crimeans by cutting water and electricity supply.

As for DNR and LNR, it's as meaningful as saying that Russia is saving people in Ukraine from being burned alive by Ukrainian nationalists [0].

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Odesa_clashes#Trade_Union...

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#352

Post by varjag »

brnt wrote: post #334
varjag wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Union State was founded in 1997 and remained a joke ever since.

Just before the war started, they signed 28 programs, which, at least on paper, remove most of Luka's room to maneuver: https://www.rferl.org/a/putin-lukashenka-union-state/3154622...

Add that to other scores of identical programs they were signing every few years. Agreements make sense only between countries with the rule of law.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#353

Post by jevgeni »

orbital-decay wrote: post #337
jevgeni wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, this playing the victim is at best getting tiring. You've ignored my comment to hear it as moving the goal posts. Again: only ca. 2% of the population are siloviki, who rely on the rest for support, for food, for logistics, for communication, IT support, etc., etc. If the protests fail, is because most of the 98% don't care, or snitch, or actively oppose the protest. That makes them culpable. A few complain…

You, on the other hand, dismissed my comment on how it was, made another unrelated claim, and now hearing that I'm playing the victim. (how on Earth?..) We can run in circles this way if you desire, but I don't want to.

It's only unlrelated if you don't care about the results. Which is the point I am making.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#354

Post by gdy »

jnsaff2 wrote: post #347
medo-bear wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

nothing "so-called" about them. by all definitions of the word, they are separatists, and ones who support russia's intervention. by their account, zelensky can end the war immediately by recognizing independence of donbas, or initiating a referendum

If the goal is to recognize Donbas then why the fuck were the tanks rolling towards Kyiv? Why was Odesa bombed? Why did the annexation involve two other regions? Let alone that it is public knowledge that the "separatists" are and always have been under russian control. Little green men came from russia and made the war happen.

Because the Ukraine signed the Minsk agreements in bad faith with no intention of implementing them.

"it is public knowledge"

I suggest you read Wikipedia about anti-Maidan unrest in the Eastern Ukraine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_pro-Russian_unrest_in_Ukr...

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#355

Post by medo-bear »

jnsaff2 wrote: post #348
medo-bear wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ukrainians would fight no matter their governments policy is that why they prevent all men from leaving their country? > Please don't project your own mentality onto others Mine? The founder of Azov, Andriy Biletsky declared in 2010 that the Ukrainian nation’s mission was to “lead the white races of the world in a final crusade … against Semite-led Untermenschen [subhumans].” There are now streets in Ukraine that c…

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FdhsPQEX0AALM9H?format=jpg&name=...

lol. thats all you have ?

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#356

Post by koonsolo »

medo-bear wrote: post #332
koonsolo wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you propose it's better to submit than fight for your freedom? That's your choice. Let's see where Ukraine is in 5 years and where Russia will be. Your mentality fits nicely in russian society. And in case you didn't notice, eastern Ukraine and Crimea is still Ukraine. Soon free from russian invaders.

> Let's see where Ukraine is in 5 years and where Russia will be given the disastrous policies of the ukranian government, in 5 years it would not surprise me if ukraine is divided between russia and poland. im sure the poles would love that too > Your mentality fits nicely in russian society. i think my mentality fits pretty nicely with that of southern Europe, where i live. i also happen to think that polish ukrani…

> southern Europe, where i live

Let me guess... you're antivax?

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#357

Post by jnsaff2 »

gdy wrote: post #354
jnsaff2 wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the goal is to recognize Donbas then why the fuck were the tanks rolling towards Kyiv? Why was Odesa bombed? Why did the annexation involve two other regions? Let alone that it is public knowledge that the "separatists" are and always have been under russian control. Little green men came from russia and made the war happen.

Because the Ukraine signed the Minsk agreements in bad faith with no intention of implementing them. "it is public knowledge" I suggest you read Wikipedia about anti-Maidan unrest in the Eastern Ukraine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_pro-Russian_unrest_in_Ukr...

I suggest you read Budapest Memorandum [0]. After russia blatantly violated its commitments from there any pointing out to Minsk is just idiotic.

Any violation of Ukrainian internationally recognized borders has been highly illegal and no matter how much whitewashing you want to do you are shilling for genocide. Also you will remove any claim that it was putins war after Ukraine has won.

Pointing out random events 9 years ago somehow justifies mass murder of civilians now? Also you need to go that far back to find anything at all is quite telling.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#358

Post by medo-bear »

jnsaff2 wrote: post #357
gdy wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the Ukraine signed the Minsk agreements in bad faith with no intention of implementing them. "it is public knowledge" I suggest you read Wikipedia about anti-Maidan unrest in the Eastern Ukraine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_pro-Russian_unrest_in_Ukr...

I suggest you read Budapest Memorandum [0]. After russia blatantly violated its commitments from there any pointing out to Minsk is just idiotic. Any violation of Ukrainian internationally recognized borders has been highly illegal and no matter how much whitewashing you want to do you are shilling for genocide. Also you will remove any claim that it was putins war after Ukraine has won. Pointing out random events 9…

its not that simple. ukranian nationalists overthrew an elected, internationally recognised government and as a consequence eastern ukranians revolted. its not very clear that budapest memorandum was violated at that point. no ammount of russia bashing can clarify that

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#359

Post by jnsaff2 »

medo-bear wrote: post #358
jnsaff2 wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suggest you read Budapest Memorandum [0]. After russia blatantly violated its commitments from there any pointing out to Minsk is just idiotic. Any violation of Ukrainian internationally recognized borders has been highly illegal and no matter how much whitewashing you want to do you are shilling for genocide. Also you will remove any claim that it was putins war after Ukraine has won. Pointing out random events 9…

its not that simple. ukranian nationalists overthrew an elected, internationally recognised government and as a consequence eastern ukranians revolted. its not very clear that budapest memorandum was violated at that point. no ammount of russia bashing can clarify that

"After the annexation of Crimea by Russia in 2014, Canada,[25] France, Germany, Italy, Japan,[26] the UK,[27] and US[28][29] stated that Russian involvement was a breach of its Budapest Memorandum obligations to Ukraine and in violation of Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity."

Whats not clear about that?

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#360

Post by gdy »

jnsaff2 wrote: post #357
gdy wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the Ukraine signed the Minsk agreements in bad faith with no intention of implementing them. "it is public knowledge" I suggest you read Wikipedia about anti-Maidan unrest in the Eastern Ukraine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_pro-Russian_unrest_in_Ukr...

I suggest you read Budapest Memorandum [0]. After russia blatantly violated its commitments from there any pointing out to Minsk is just idiotic. Any violation of Ukrainian internationally recognized borders has been highly illegal and no matter how much whitewashing you want to do you are shilling for genocide. Also you will remove any claim that it was putins war after Ukraine has won. Pointing out random events 9…

"Pointing out random events 9 years ago somehow justifies mass murder"

You are confused. You claimed that the sole reason of the war in 2014 was Russian meddling and I suggested you read how the events really unfolded. It's still not too late to do just that.

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