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“Inside-out Wankel” rotary engine delivers 5X the power of a diesel

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Re: “Inside-out Wankel” rotary engine delivers 5X the power of a diesel

#191

Post by anecdotal1 »

leansensei wrote: post #176
adgjlsfhk1 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is backwards. the reason cargo ship engines are big is because they don't care about size. they would rather have a 2x bigger engine that was 1% more efficient

> this is backwards. the reason cargo ship engines are big is because they don't care about size. they would rather have a 2x bigger engine that was 1% more efficient Depends on the fuel cost.

Does it? They only need to get to it international waters and then they switch to bunker fuel which is as cheap as it gets

Re: “Inside-out Wankel” rotary engine delivers 5X the power of a diesel

#192

Post by BWStearns »

stametseater wrote: post #119
BWStearns wrote: post #11

Sounds like it could be awesome for some GA applications given the lack of weight budget and it seems like they did solve the issues with rotaries. Hopefully someone starts cramming them in some experimentals!

General aviation are perhaps the most cautious and wary ICE users around. Most of the engines used in GA, Lycomings and Continentals, are essentially 1960s designs with very well known cost, performance and reliability characteristics. That is not to say change is impossible, GA's overdue changeover to unleaded gasoline seems like an inevitability. Unleaded gas is already being approved for many of these engines, lik…

> General aviation are perhaps the most cautious and wary ICE users around.

That depends on if you're describing the pilots or the ~manufacturers~ Textron. The experimental fleet has been pretty adventurous and it's a fast growing fleet. I think most of the conservatism in GA ICE tech has been driven by the broader issue of consolidation into a near monopoly on the cheaper end of the market. If you have no competition then why bother innovating?

Re: “Inside-out Wankel” rotary engine delivers 5X the power of a diesel

#193

Post by bmelton »

aidenn0 wrote: post #139
bmelton wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, but there's also Koenigsegg, which has managed to eliminate the need for cams, and complete heads from ICEs, replacing them with their 'freevalve' tech (which basically replaces the timing chain with computers so that instead of having one or two modes that a camshaft can opt into, you can precisely dial in bespoke timings for every RPM, or every RPM and speed, or ever RPM / speed / gear combination. They've…

People have made test engines with camless electrically actuated valves for a long time; it's just been too expensive to put in production cars...

Considering the MSRP on your median Koenigsegg, it may still not be

Re: “Inside-out Wankel” rotary engine delivers 5X the power of a diesel

#194

Post by bmelton »

digdugdirk wrote: post #153
bmelton wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, but there's also Koenigsegg, which has managed to eliminate the need for cams, and complete heads from ICEs, replacing them with their 'freevalve' tech (which basically replaces the timing chain with computers so that instead of having one or two modes that a camshaft can opt into, you can precisely dial in bespoke timings for every RPM, or every RPM and speed, or ever RPM / speed / gear combination. They've…

Absolutely love Koenigsegg, and their new engines are probably the current state of the art in (small scale) production ICE engines. I just feel like Mazda doesn’t get enough credit for the innovation they manage to accomplish at a truly mass produced scale. It's almost like they're too "normal" to get the attention they deserve.

You're right. They might need to bring back MazdaSpeed to get the [gear|petrol]heads back on board, who seem to have either stayed put with Honda/Toyota/Subaru fandom, or to Hyundai for those who haven't. Or just put out another RX.

The tragedy of Mazda is that they already make one of the best cars in the world, but machismo / public opinion prevents too many men from enjoying the full glory of the Miata. But on the other hand, Mazda's refusal to move it beyond 'momentum car' holds it back. If they added ~30-40 horsepower to it, it could legitimately be stealing sales from cars thrice its price.

Re: “Inside-out Wankel” rotary engine delivers 5X the power of a diesel

#195

Post by MichaelZuo »

DesiLurker wrote: post #180
MichaelZuo wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? Did you perhaps read a different comment?

if you ignore the last 2 lines of my comment (or read them as a separate paragraph) you will get a direct answer to your questions. ..Or you can chose to respond with another one line remark without explaining your thoughts.

> Last I checked toyota's market cap was 220B+, they have been burning cash on Hydrogen fuel cell BS for a decade plus. that costs money too. BTW if a startup like Aquarious & some research center in UK can do it then so can they. all the rest of expenses come later when technology is promising & starts deploying. But thats when market also rewards you for innovation & not just maintaining you P/E ratios & EBITDA margins. That is essentially what tesla did.

So this was your intended comment?

If so, I don't see how it's relevant. The money Toyota 'burnt' on hydrogen stuff has already been spent, it can't be recovered.

And the rollout your imagining would require at least 10x the money to do so worldwide.

Relying on a stock market boost to fund such a huge investment is silly because Toyota doesn't pay the vast majority of their suppliers or their staff in shares or options, but in cash.

Re: “Inside-out Wankel” rotary engine delivers 5X the power of a diesel

#196

Post by m3047 »

abfan1127 wrote: post #86
m3047 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2 stroke has poor unburned emissions because of mix flow-through when ports are open. If air charge / purge is completed before fuel is injected then that doesn't occur; whether that's diesel or something else is irrelevant. As a bonus, built in EGR if properly managed.

I thought 2-strokes had poor emissions was the injection of lubrication oil into the air fuel mixture. traditional 2-strokes I'm familiar with pull in air into the crank case (which requires lubrication), then uses a portion of the exhaust stroke to compress the fuel/air creating forced induction. By keeping air out of the crank case and providing lubrication delivery outside of the air/fuel mixture, emissions can be…

My 1960s cafe racer (years ago!) had oil injection. Some engines do have oil injection and just inject it into the inlet port, but in this engine it was delivered directly to the crank bearings. From there it was flung all over and ultimately burned. Anyway, as the saying goes on the lost continent of Perl: "There's More Than One Way To Do It".

Re: “Inside-out Wankel” rotary engine delivers 5X the power of a diesel

#197

Post by KRAKRISMOTT »

CocaKoala wrote: post #46
digdugdirk wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mazda really seems like the only company innovating in the ICE space (this, wankel rotary engines, skyactive engines) and their cars look damn good these days too. On top of that, they make fun cars. With buttons and knobs on the dash! I'm glad they're still around doing their thing.

Mazda's also one of the few carmakers that's independent, as opposed to being part of a much larger conglomeration!

No. Japanese conglomerates are not structured the same way as those in the west. Right now Mazda is semi dependent on Toyota, similar to Subaru.

Re: “Inside-out Wankel” rotary engine delivers 5X the power of a diesel

#198

Post by DesiLurker »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #195
DesiLurker wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you ignore the last 2 lines of my comment (or read them as a separate paragraph) you will get a direct answer to your questions. ..Or you can chose to respond with another one line remark without explaining your thoughts.

> Last I checked toyota's market cap was 220B+, they have been burning cash on Hydrogen fuel cell BS for a decade plus. that costs money too. BTW if a startup like Aquarious & some research center in UK can do it then so can they. all the rest of expenses come later when technology is promising & starts deploying. But thats when market also rewards you for innovation & not just maintaining you P/E ratios & EBITDA mar…

>The money Toyota 'burnt' on hydrogen stuff has already been spent

Well was the decision to go all in on a entirely new tech (hydrogen fuel cells) was conscious choice by Toyota or not? So you agree that they have capacity to spend investment dollars, right? Now could they spend maybe an order of magnitude less money on improving ICE, Most definitely yes. Its definitely less costly trying to reinvent and entire new scientific field (fuel cells) than repurposing ice engine as demonstrated by companies I highlighted (& many more).

>And the rollout your imagining would require at least 10x the money to do so worldwide.

would this rollout be any less expensive for hydrogen cars, I'd argue orders of magnitude more expensive because no hydrogen infra exists. yet you chose to conveniently ignore it. Also, you are making a strawman here by indicating that I am saying need to fund it with stock-market (go back and read my comment). they dont Need that money to start the rollout, they get rewarded by market when they do it because its a fundamentally better product.

My gut feeling is most of these japanese companies are opposed to electrification because of some other ulterior reason, likely because solar may not be viable in that region & their govts might not be so excited about it. In any case they are about to get their ass handed to them by tesla & chinese EVs because EVs are essentially democratizing the automobile development platform due to its simplicity.

Re: “Inside-out Wankel” rotary engine delivers 5X the power of a diesel

#199

Post by DesiLurker »

midoridensha wrote: post #183
DesiLurker wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes I am well aware of Prius series configuration but it is still a regular engine shrunk down and fine tuned. What I am asking for is something very ground up redesigned for maximizing one thing only efficiency of energy conversion. couple of examples of this are Aquarius engines or [1]. basically you cut out all the unnecessary stuff and all the maintenance/repair plus cost with it. Current engines are complex beca…

I think you're greatly overestimating just how efficient a conventional ICE can be if designed and tuned for single-rpm, maximum-efficiency operation. Basically, the Chevy Volt is exactly the car you're describing. It wasn't that great: it had a separate engine that only ran a generator, and would only come on when the battery was depleted. The problem is having a full EV powertrain, plus an ICE driving a generator,…

here are some links for implementations that have optimized to close to 45% efficiency. plus a very simple lightweight design.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-piston_engine

https://www.aquariusengines.com/

https://engineerine.com/omega-1-piston-less-near-zero-emissi... (optimize for power but can be tuned for efficiency)

its nowhere near what a turbine can get (60% about max with heat recovery) but high enough to design around need for large batteries.

edit: formatting

Re: “Inside-out Wankel” rotary engine delivers 5X the power of a diesel

#200

Post by MichaelZuo »

DesiLurker wrote: post #198
MichaelZuo wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Last I checked toyota's market cap was 220B+, they have been burning cash on Hydrogen fuel cell BS for a decade plus. that costs money too. BTW if a startup like Aquarious & some research center in UK can do it then so can they. all the rest of expenses come later when technology is promising & starts deploying. But thats when market also rewards you for innovation & not just maintaining you P/E ratios & EBITDA mar…

>The money Toyota 'burnt' on hydrogen stuff has already been spent Well was the decision to go all in on a entirely new tech (hydrogen fuel cells) was conscious choice by Toyota or not? So you agree that they have capacity to spend investment dollars, right? Now could they spend maybe an order of magnitude less money on improving ICE, Most definitely yes. Its definitely less costly trying to reinvent and entire new s…

> Well was the decision to go all in on a entirely new tech (hydrogen fuel cells) was conscious choice by Toyota or not? So you agree that they have capacity to spend investment dollars, right? Now could they spend maybe an order of magnitude less money on improving ICE, Most definitely yes. Its definitely less costly trying to reinvent and entire new scientific field (fuel cells) than repurposing ice engine as demonstrated by companies I highlighted (& many more).

Toyota spent that money years ago. How is that at all relevant to how much they can spend in 2023?

Financial markets are much tighter, so I doubt they could even spend 20% as much without huge shareholder pushback.

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