Low and moderate alcohol consumption not associated with increased mortality • Hacker News Board

Re: Low and moderate alcohol consumption not associated with increased mortality

#71

Post by garyrob » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 3:53 PM UTC

mil22 wrote: post #40

While they found low alcohol consumption did not reduce all-cause mortality relative to abstention, other studies have shown a shift with reduced cardiovascular mortality balanced out by increased cancer mortality. For me the primary reason to stop drinking was preservation of brain cells. Recent studies have shown a simple dose response relationship between neuronal death and alcohol consumption, with no minimum thr…

There is reason to think red wine, with its unique combination of resveratrol, phenolic acids, and flavonoids, might be an exception to that. For example, the conclusion of a meta-analysis of 12 studies on the subject says: "This study may show a protective effect of wine consumption against cognitive decline. However, it would be important for future research to differentiate the types of wine within consumption." The paper contains a conflict of interest statement declaring no conflicts of interest.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnut.2022.86305...

Re: Low and moderate alcohol consumption not associated with increased mortality

#72

Post by geuis » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 3:53 PM UTC

The title is an incorrect version of the study summary. Directly in the beginning:

> Low-volume alcohol drinking was not associated with protection against death from all causes.

Prior to this it specifically says there is a rise in mortality due to alcohol consumption above 25g/45g for women/men respectively.

Re: Low and moderate alcohol consumption not associated with increased mortality

#73

Post by rimliu » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 4:05 PM UTC

mil22 wrote: post #40

While they found low alcohol consumption did not reduce all-cause mortality relative to abstention, other studies have shown a shift with reduced cardiovascular mortality balanced out by increased cancer mortality. For me the primary reason to stop drinking was preservation of brain cells. Recent studies have shown a simple dose response relationship between neuronal death and alcohol consumption, with no minimum thr…

Was that the only thing that changed?

Re: Low and moderate alcohol consumption not associated with increased mortality

#74

Post by wing-_-nuts » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 4:06 PM UTC

kspacewalk2 wrote: post #4

Everyone on this topic seems to have their own studies to back polar opposite conclusions. Canada is going the opposite direction[0], taking the position that "no amount of alcohol is safe to consume". [0] https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/what-you-should-know-about-can...

I've read a lot of studies on alcohol and health. Broadly, I've come to a few conclusions.

* Alcohol raises your risk of cancer, and this effect is exponential. Your risk at a 6 pack a week is minimal. Your risk at a 12 pack a week is moderate. Your risk at a case a week is enough to start seriously increasing your risk of dying.

* Alcohol lowers your risk of cardiovascular disease at low doses (6/12 pack), but this effect is swamped by your risks of cancer and liver disease above that amount

* A lot of recent studies with the most negative outlook on alcohol include negative externalities like drunk driving, domestic violence, etc. While this is accurate on a population level, it tells you nothing about your individual risk.

Overall, the risks have to be balanced against how much you personally enjoy consuming it. At *moderate* levels of drinking, the risks are not a personal concern for me. I would argue most peoples diet, exercise, and sleep habits have a much higher effect on their long term health.

Re: Low and moderate alcohol consumption not associated with increased mortality

#75

Post by ToValueFunfetti » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 4:10 PM UTC

loeg wrote: post #60

clnq wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

14-21 units of alcohol a week really sounds like that would increase mortality. I'm surprised they didn't find that mortality increases remarkably before then.

Yes, it is a surprisingly high amount. ~14-21 units/week puts you in (at least) the top 20% of Americans for alcohol consumption. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/25/think... ( https://archive.is/fa25J )

Note that that data is unreliable. IIRC, the methodology is to start with a survey, multiply by the population size, find that it doesn't account for nearly half of the drinks sold, and then multiply the survey results by a constant factor to account for the difference. So, for example with population = 2, one reported 35 drinks per week and the other reported 1 drink per week, but we sold 72 drinks per week so we assume that the person who claimed 35 actually drank 70.

Re: Low and moderate alcohol consumption not associated with increased mortality

#76

Post by misiti3780 » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 4:18 PM UTC

eloff wrote: post #47

misiti3780 wrote: post #6

Why do this alcohol studies keep coming up? They are so polarizing to everyone.

Would it be better to stock your head in the sand? I’m honestly baffled by your comment.

What does alcohol consumption have to do with technology? Most people here are looking to read about tech, not yet another subjective study about the effects of alcohol.

Re: Low and moderate alcohol consumption not associated with increased mortality

#77

Post by mil22 » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 4:21 PM UTC

KptMarchewa wrote: post #66

mil22 wrote: post #40

While they found low alcohol consumption did not reduce all-cause mortality relative to abstention, other studies have shown a shift with reduced cardiovascular mortality balanced out by increased cancer mortality. For me the primary reason to stop drinking was preservation of brain cells. Recent studies have shown a simple dose response relationship between neuronal death and alcohol consumption, with no minimum thr…

>They don’t grow back. >Since quitting in 2021, I have become noticeably sharper Those are conflicting statements literally next to another.

You seem to be misunderstanding the points made in my original comment. The statement "They don't grow back" refers to the fact that alcohol can kill neurons, and these neurons do not regenerate. The subsequent statement, "Since quitting in 2021, I have become noticeably sharper," does not conflict with the previous statement, as it implies that cognitive abilities can recover after alcohol cessation through mechanisms other than neurogenesis.

Firstly, it's important to consider neuroplasticity, which is the brain's ability to reorganize itself by forming new connections between neurons. Even though the number of neurons may not increase, the brain can adapt and compensate for the loss by strengthening existing connections or forming new ones, leading to an overall improvement in cognitive function.

Secondly, alcohol impairs cognitive function through various mechanisms other than neuronal death. For instance, alcohol disrupts sleep quality, which in turn impairs cognitive function. When someone stops consuming alcohol, their sleep quality is likely to improve, leading to better cognitive performance.

Lastly, regular repeated brain insult from alcohol consumption leads to chronic cognitive deficits, as the brain is consistently affected by alcohol's neurotoxic effects. When alcohol consumption ceases, the continuous damage stops, allowing the brain to recover to a certain extent, even without replacing the lost neurons.

In conclusion, the statements in my original comment are not conflicting. Improved cognitive abilities after quitting alcohol can be attributed to factors such as neuroplasticity, improved sleep quality, and the cessation of ongoing damage to the brain.

Re: Low and moderate alcohol consumption not associated with increased mortality

#78

Post by mil22 » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 4:22 PM UTC

rimliu wrote: post #73

mil22 wrote: post #40

While they found low alcohol consumption did not reduce all-cause mortality relative to abstention, other studies have shown a shift with reduced cardiovascular mortality balanced out by increased cancer mortality. For me the primary reason to stop drinking was preservation of brain cells. Recent studies have shown a simple dose response relationship between neuronal death and alcohol consumption, with no minimum thr…

Was that the only thing that changed?

Over the last two years, yes.

Re: Low and moderate alcohol consumption not associated with increased mortality

#79

Post by saulpw » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 4:25 PM UTC

KptMarchewa wrote: post #66

mil22 wrote: post #40

While they found low alcohol consumption did not reduce all-cause mortality relative to abstention, other studies have shown a shift with reduced cardiovascular mortality balanced out by increased cancer mortality. For me the primary reason to stop drinking was preservation of brain cells. Recent studies have shown a simple dose response relationship between neuronal death and alcohol consumption, with no minimum thr…

>They don’t grow back. >Since quitting in 2021, I have become noticeably sharper Those are conflicting statements literally next to another.

Yes, but he didn't notice the juxtaposition. Perhaps the claimed resurgence of sharpness is an increase in self-perception of sharpness only.

Re: Low and moderate alcohol consumption not associated with increased mortality

#80

Post by MichaelRo » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 4:29 PM UTC

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #74

kspacewalk2 wrote: post #4

Everyone on this topic seems to have their own studies to back polar opposite conclusions. Canada is going the opposite direction[0], taking the position that "no amount of alcohol is safe to consume". [0] https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/what-you-should-know-about-can...

I've read a lot of studies on alcohol and health. Broadly, I've come to a few conclusions. * Alcohol raises your risk of cancer, and this effect is exponential. Your risk at a 6 pack a week is minimal. Your risk at a 12 pack a week is moderate. Your risk at a case a week is enough to start seriously increasing your risk of dying. * Alcohol lowers your risk of cardiovascular disease at low doses (6/12 pack), but this…

Does these studies mean "12 beers over the course of a week but like no more than one every 14 hours" or "Whatever, just don't start another 12 pack this week"?

Coze I'm more of a "12 beers at once" guy. By "I'll have a beer" I mean a sixpack.