My U.S. Border Nightmare • Hacker News Board

Re: My U.S. Border Nightmare

#201

Post by electromagnetic » Fri, Feb 03, 2012, 12:22 PM UTC

k-mcgrady wrote: post #66

duopixel wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes to all of this. I always rehearse what I'm going to say entering any country legally. They will grind you to find inconsistencies and sometimes you just say honest mistakes that will take you to a second round of interrogation. For example: after a series of tough questions, the border was just about to stamp my passport, he held the stamp in the air and then asked "have you been in the US before"? And I flustere…

Good advice. I experienced the same thing when coming into Canada recently as a non-Canadian. The agent asked me if I had been to Canada before and I said know. He then found a stamp on my passport (which was only there because I got a connecting flight to Chicago from Toronto - I never left the airport) I got another round of questions and even further questioning by a second immigration officer. Granted, I am stayi…

I spent about 3 hours in Canada Immigration on my first trip to Canada, I now live here. IMO Toronto Pearson's border control are the worst I've ever experienced.

I made the honest mistake of being honest. I was working as an electrician for my fathers company, which meant I had a plenty of money and as much holiday time as I wanted (I declared I was taking 2 weeks, and the officer acted like this was a lot).

My second mistake was being nervous. I came from the UK where our police, even at the border, are professional, courteous and aren't carrying handguns. The Canadian border officer was extremely rude (In dealing with 5 female officers and 4 male officers I found the male ones are the only professional and courteous officers employed by CBP).

After being questioned for an hour I was taken to get my bags searched. The male officer doing the searching was extremely polite and professional. He opened my suitcase (for a very messy person, my luggage is always meticulously packed to maximize space) and automatically adopted "We're not going to find anything here" mode, like you visibly saw the guy relax and he started chatting about the books I'd brought with me (one was a manga that he bought his kid).

I then got questioned further, and taken back to the immigration desk and asked to wait. This is when I overheard another male officer say "He's got nothing, you should have known that in the first five minutes. Just let him go." So she asked for the contact information, accused me of them being false when they didn't immediately answer (noisy terminal and 2 hours waiting). I asked if I could text them, and got grilled for her accusing me of keeping my phone on. I basically threw my phone over the desk at her and said "No it's been turned off for the past ten hours!" Then her attitude changed.

Since then I've rehearsed everything I've said. Act pissed off and say as little as possible. When I get to the person who checks my claims I say, sounding extremely pissed off "Hey, how are you?" I take the same policy whenever I get sent to the actual officers (it happens way to frequently, I have no clue why, apparently being completely white bread I look like a major terrorist threat - actually with my knowledge of chemistry and physics I'm probably a bigger risk than any of the guys who hijacked the planes on 9/11 as I actually know how to make a nuclear bomb - probably a very, very dirty bomb - and explosives).

Re: My U.S. Border Nightmare

#202

Post by gcp » Fri, Feb 03, 2012, 12:24 PM UTC

yason wrote: post #182

So what we learn is that it doesn't really matter if you're trying to be honest down to details or enter with illegal plans to stay in the US: what matters is not appearing different, and hopefully be equipped with a rehearsed canned explanation that comes with paperwork to back it up. The border officers ask generic questions and try to see how you respond to them. This is good because the response will reveal more…

So, it comes down to playing a role.

That's why they call it "security theatre".

Re: My U.S. Border Nightmare

#203

Post by kurrent » Fri, Feb 03, 2012, 12:26 PM UTC

grecy wrote: post #95

jrockway wrote: post #47

If you're ever locked in a jail cell, I have one word of advice: lawyer.

As a foreigner being detained in the US, with no official status in the US, he had no right to a lawyer.

by that logic (and thank god it isn't true) who in their right mind would ever risk entering through that border?

you're absolutely wrong on that i'm afraid

Re: My U.S. Border Nightmare

#204

Post by a_a_r_o_n » Fri, Feb 03, 2012, 12:36 PM UTC

mcrider wrote: post #94

a_a_r_o_n wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US citizen, I used to cross to Vancouver BC occasionally in the eighties. I loved going up, the CBP was always nice and welcoming. I hated coming back, the US guards were rude and terrible. Shameful.

US border guards are primarily ex-military. Canadian border guards are often civilians (in fact, a good friend of mind worked at CBSA during summers between semesters at university). This lends a lot to the attitudes of the guards. That said, I've always had an easy time going through the border, and have rarely had more than a couple questions asked to me over the many many crossings (this may be because I have a st…

"US border guards are primarily ex-military."

Ex-military, like everyone else in the world, are individuals. Being in the military doesn't turn you into an asshole, although it could amplify that tendency if you went in with it. Military and ex-military are not exotic aliens, they're us, nothing more and nothing less.

I think it's more likely that poor treatment at the border is institutional.

Re: My U.S. Border Nightmare

#205

Post by brk » Fri, Feb 03, 2012, 12:45 PM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #190

Kylekramer wrote: post #92

Almost comical in how he did everything to seem more suspect (one way travel, long undefined stay, no job, etc.). As an American who went to university in Montreal and holder of the rare distinction of being called a "retard" by an officer in front of a crowded lobby at the Canadian Border, I have more opinions than healthy about the American-Canadian crossing experience. But as the officer who called me a retard tol…

> you don't have a lot of cash ...but you have enough that you're not going to need to start working to support yourself.

I think they mean as in literal cash on your person vs. access to cash or lines of credit to sustain your living condition.

Re: My U.S. Border Nightmare

#206

Post by vidarh » Fri, Feb 03, 2012, 1:02 PM UTC

grecy wrote: post #122

joshAg wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theoretically, the constitution applies to all people in the united states jurisdiction, not just citizens. certain rights, like voting, are given only to citizens, but the Bill of Rights (which gives the right to a lawyer) applies to any person inside the US. Practically, there are a few exceptions to this, eg 4th amendment rights are suspended from everyone at the border and within 100 miles of the border.

>applies to any person inside the US. When detained at a border, a person is not considered inside the US. >Theoretically, the constitution applies to all people in the united states jurisdiction That is absolutely not correct. When I enter the USA on the visa waiver program, it very, very clearly says I have no rights while in the USA. No right to a lawyer, no right to appeal, no right to anything. I must sign that…

> That is absolutely not correct. When I enter the USA on the visa waiver program, it very, very clearly says I have no rights while in the USA. No right to a lawyer, no right to appeal, no right to anything.

No, it does not.

I've traveled to the US on the visa waiver program around 20 times or so, and your claim sounded bizarre, so I actually checked the form to see whether I could truly have misremembered it that badly.

The visa waiver - form I-94W contains no language even remotely as extreme as what you portray it as.

It does contain a waiver of rights that states that you waive any right to appeal or review a US CBP officials determination of whether or not to admit you, or to contest deportation other than on grounds of a request for asylum.

In other words, you only waive rights related to preventing them from refusing you entry and sending you back. Once you're in, you're still subject to most of the the same protections.

Re: My U.S. Border Nightmare

#207

Post by harshreality » Fri, Feb 03, 2012, 1:15 PM UTC

a_a_r_o_n wrote: post #204

mcrider wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US border guards are primarily ex-military. Canadian border guards are often civilians (in fact, a good friend of mind worked at CBSA during summers between semesters at university). This lends a lot to the attitudes of the guards. That said, I've always had an easy time going through the border, and have rarely had more than a couple questions asked to me over the many many crossings (this may be because I have a st…

"US border guards are primarily ex-military." Ex-military, like everyone else in the world, are individuals. Being in the military doesn't turn you into an asshole, although it could amplify that tendency if you went in with it. Military and ex-military are not exotic aliens, they're us, nothing more and nothing less. I think it's more likely that poor treatment at the border is institutional.

The Stanford Prison Experiment seems to contradict your claim that normal people can't/won't be conditioned to develop hostility in "us vs them" scenarios.

Re: My U.S. Border Nightmare

#208

Post by AgentConundrum » Fri, Feb 03, 2012, 1:17 PM UTC

maaku wrote: post #102

AgentConundrum wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what kind of training involves setting up a US corp? Y Combinator. The company he mentions has a post on the front page right now mentioning "[their] Y Combinator experience". Calling it "business training" seems an overly simplistic description, but I don't think it's technically inaccurate. It's certainly the wrong thing to call it at the border.

But there's absolutely no question that it involves working in America, and would require a business visa. I'm not sure how one could a) be smart enough to get into YC, and b) not realize that coming to SF for 3 months to work presumably as a C-level director for an American business requires a work visa. EDIT: And neither B1 nor B2 is the right visa, so CBP was right to send him home. The OP needed a working visa.

I didn't mean to imply it wouldn't require a business visa (or employment visa and/or status, per patio11). When I said calling it "business training" was technically accurate, I meant just that. YC technically helps train you to create and run a business, but it's only part of the equation.

I certainly agree that he should have known better. How can you honestly say (or think) "I'm going to the states for a couple months to do business training, and yes those are documents to set up a US business, but no I'm not here on business."

Re: My U.S. Border Nightmare

#209

Post by toyg » Fri, Feb 03, 2012, 1:28 PM UTC

potatolicious wrote: post #8

Author seems a bit naive about international sovereignty, though I suppose one can't exactly blame him for it. I grew up in Vancouver, a stone's throw from the border, so I suppose I take it for granted that we all learn very early on that CBP is a wretched hive of scum and villainy, and everyone knows someone who was chewed out, berated, and generally treated like a criminal by them. Seeing as how I work in the US n…

I'm really, really tired of the line "You have no right to X if Y". That's false; somebody might not recognise your rights, but that doesn't mean you don't have them.

I personally believe everyone has a right to move across arbitrary lines written on some map by wealthy people in the past few centuries. I believe it is a natural right for every human being, as much as the right to participate in the organization of your community (e.g. voting), the right not to be unduly harassed without habeas corpus, the right to be treated with dignity etc etc.

The fact that some specific law of some specific land recognises some rights and not others does not mean we should resign to the fact that this is how it ought to be. Otherwise, we might as well roll back to theocracy or some other rubbish way of life.

Re: My U.S. Border Nightmare

#210

Post by VolatileVoid » Fri, Feb 03, 2012, 1:32 PM UTC

pyre wrote: post #26

potatolicious wrote: post #8

Author seems a bit naive about international sovereignty, though I suppose one can't exactly blame him for it. I grew up in Vancouver, a stone's throw from the border, so I suppose I take it for granted that we all learn very early on that CBP is a wretched hive of scum and villainy, and everyone knows someone who was chewed out, berated, and generally treated like a criminal by them. Seeing as how I work in the US n…

I will add an anecdote here. I have crossed the US-Canada land border many times. I've only ever been 'chewed out' by Canadian Border Patrol once . I've had this happen multiple times from the US Border Patrol and I'm a US citizen. The Canadian Border Patrol has always been calm, patient and understanding in my experience. The US border patrol is hit-or-miss. Some people are nice ( once I was only asked two questions…

I've been questioned pretty strongly the few times I flew to YYC (Calgary) from the US. All times it was for business, and I was pushed quite hard to admit that my work could have been done remotely from the US.

Granted, I am a developer, but my work couldn't have been done remotely - I had to be physically present. The CBP at the airport were generally unpleasant and surly.

Of course, there's also US Border Patrol in YYC's airport for the return back to the US, and I will say that the US border guards were pretty surly as well.