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California public school enrollment sees big drops

latimes.com

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Re: California public school enrollment sees big drops

#11
post #2

As a none-american, can I ask: Are public schools in the USA bad? Like, I have such a negative view of them as underfunded, understaffed, filled with overworked & burned out staff. just somewhere that education goes to die, really. Is that view accurate? Or do I just have that view due to media bias(The bias being that there's no news story: 'Random School is well run, more at 11')?

It depends heavily on your location. Public schools are generally assigned based on the student's primary address, so houses in good school districts tend to attract a premium. This leaves schools in poor areas chronically underfunded and understaffed

Even “poor” schools in the US are generally receiving more funding per student than the average school in other countries.

The “bad” public schools are a result of increasing and spreading social dysfunction (see the other comment in this thread about drug dogs), not funding.

Re: California public school enrollment sees big drops

#12
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

super location dependent. There are many reasons, from the absurd to the cruel (CA for example doesn't allow property taxes/council rates to track market value, largely because of campaigning in the 70s after the Supreme Court said CA had to fund schools in poor neighborhoods to the same extent as those in rich neighborhoods). I'm from NZ, so my US partner's Oakland, CA high school experience was horrifying: * They h…

I’ve never heard of toilet stalls without doors in schools. The really flimsy walls high above the floors, sure, but no doors? That sounds like a massive open door for bullying

My elementary school had no doors on the toilet stalls, in the wing of the school for 6th graders and up. I haven't seen that since.

Re: California public school enrollment sees big drops

#13
post #2

As a none-american, can I ask: Are public schools in the USA bad? Like, I have such a negative view of them as underfunded, understaffed, filled with overworked & burned out staff. just somewhere that education goes to die, really. Is that view accurate? Or do I just have that view due to media bias(The bias being that there's no news story: 'Random School is well run, more at 11')?

The drop in attendance is not because schools are under funded, or the staff is burnt. It's pretty clear the biggest changes that have happened in US schools in the last years.

Re: California public school enrollment sees big drops

#15
post #2

As a none-american, can I ask: Are public schools in the USA bad? Like, I have such a negative view of them as underfunded, understaffed, filled with overworked & burned out staff. just somewhere that education goes to die, really. Is that view accurate? Or do I just have that view due to media bias(The bias being that there's no news story: 'Random School is well run, more at 11')?

It’s a huge country and there are a lot of public schools, so you see a lot of variance. They all (99% anyway) have the funding and infrastructure to be fine especially large cities. The problem is large swaths of parents who don’t get involved in their kids education or behavior at all, and those kids become a nightmare for teachers and other students to the point where it becomes a safety issue. It’s always in poorer areas of mostly cities. You can throw all the money you want at those schools and it won’t work because too many of the parents are just trash.

Re: California public school enrollment sees big drops

#17
post #2

As a none-american, can I ask: Are public schools in the USA bad? Like, I have such a negative view of them as underfunded, understaffed, filled with overworked & burned out staff. just somewhere that education goes to die, really. Is that view accurate? Or do I just have that view due to media bias(The bias being that there's no news story: 'Random School is well run, more at 11')?

Like others have mentioned, public schooling in the U.S. is heavily location-dependent. Many affluent suburbs with wealthy, involved parents have great public schools. You don't hear about them because of reporting bias: if the schools are good, the last thing you want is lots of other people coming to your town to take advantage of them, but if they're bad it makes for a good outrage piece.

I don't think it's so much about "affluent suburbs" having "great" schools and some places having very bad schools. I grew up in an upper middle class Virginia county that nonetheless spent less than the national average per student on education (back when Virginia was a red state), but had well regarded schools. I think in most of the country, if you live in a community where nearly all the kids parents are married, the schools will be fine, even if the places aren't "wealthy" or don't spend a lot of money on education.

Re: California public school enrollment sees big drops

#18
post #2

As a none-american, can I ask: Are public schools in the USA bad? Like, I have such a negative view of them as underfunded, understaffed, filled with overworked & burned out staff. just somewhere that education goes to die, really. Is that view accurate? Or do I just have that view due to media bias(The bias being that there's no news story: 'Random School is well run, more at 11')?

It depends on where you are city wise. If you are in an affluent area, like my cousins, then you have after school programs, Scout troops, available tutoring, excellent teachers, little to no violence and safe transportation to/from.

If you live in an area with lots of halfway houses like I did as a kid (We called it murder valley), you can expect: Violence, blatant racism, drugs, gangs, sexual assault, weekly riots, casual fights, attempted murders, one or two actual murders a year, burnt out teachers, closed after school programs, dangerous busses, and police harassing you constantly.

I was constantly getting hauled up to the office because I had the same name as a career criminal at the age of 13. Substitutes would refer kids to the office who looked sleepy for the nurse to check us for drug use. I was in constant fights with black and hispanic kids trying to prove something to their friends by beating up the white kids. Drug dogs would patrol the school. The place was run like a prison. Walking home, one of the girls in my high school went missing and her pelvis was found in a ditch a few years later...

So yeah, some of them are pretty bad. But at least we have the most overfunded military in the world.

Re: California public school enrollment sees big drops

#19
post #16

I wonder if this has to do with changes to curricula.

[flagged]

from chapter 1 of the book you linked:

  > At its core, the field of ethnic studies is the interdisciplinary study of race, ethnicity, and Indigeneity, with an emphasis on the experiences of people of color in the United States. People or person of color is a term used primarily in the United States and is meant to be inclusive among non-white groups

  > Furthermore, considering that European American-centered history and cultures are already robustly taught in the school curriculum, ethnic studies presents an opportunity for more inclusive and diverse histories and cultures to be highlighted and studied in a manner that is meaningful and can be transformative for all students.
-------------

  > Italian and German kids, by contrast, are not taught about the discrimination against those groups—even though German and Italian Americans today mostly are descended from 19th and 20th century immigrants who came here in poverty and faced discrimination, while most Asian Americans came here after 1990.
firstly, why the concentration on discrimination? ethnic studies covers much more than that...

also, the reason they don't cover groups that are considered "white" is because as stated above, in regular american history those history of italians/germans/irish are covered there well, but things like the chinese exclusion act, or railroad workers usually get about a paragraph or so in regular history (speaking of my own experience anyways) so adding more context and depth is good no?

  > It's a naked attempt to socialize "children of color" into identifying as oppressed minorities.
maybe, maybe not, but whats your alternative? don't teach history of generally ignored groups in ethnic studies?

Re: California public school enrollment sees big drops

#20
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

from chapter 1 of the book you linked: > At its core, the field of ethnic studies is the interdisciplinary study of race, ethnicity, and Indigeneity, with an emphasis on the experiences of people of color in the United States. People or person of color is a term used primarily in the United States and is meant to be inclusive among non-white groups > Furthermore, considering that European American-centered history an…

> firstly, why the concentration on discrimination?

Ask that to the people who put together the model ethnic studies curriculum! If you look at the sample lessons for Asians, almost all are about discrimination, exclusion, etc.

> ethnic studies covers much more than that...

In theory, yes, in practice, no. You can’t realistically expect white Americans to teach Indian or Chinese kids about their own cultures and experiences. So the focus tends to be on how white Americans relate to minorities, which in liberal states like California tends to be through the lens of white guilt. That’s how you end up with a curriculum that’s all about discrimination.

> also, the reason they don't cover groups that are considered "white" is because as stated above, in regular american history those history of italians/germans/irish are covered there well

We didn’t cover German, Italian, and Irish immigration in K-12. Maybe we spent a day talking about Ellis Island. More importantly, we never learned anything about the discrimination against those groups.

There is a clear dichotomy: white kids are not taught ethnic identity, and are not taught to identify with the struggles of and discrimination against their immigrant ancestors. Minority kids, by contrast, are taught to be conscious of their race and ethnicity, and are taught to identify with the struggles of Asians or Hispanics that in most cases they aren’t even descended from.

This dichotomy is historically inaccurate. For example, if you really want to understand how say Hispanics fit into America—economically, socially, and culturally—the closest analogy is to Italians. But in California, Italian kids are taught something completely different about their identity than Hispanic kids. Separating non-white immigrants from previous generations of immigrants paints a misleading picture of the immigrant experience.

This dichotomy is also bad for minority kids. It socializes them to think of themselves as victims without agency, who are acted upon by white people who have agency. It’s othering—you have white teachers talking about what “we” did to “you.” And it’s enormously demotivating for kids to be told that they have the decked stacked against them because of your skin color.

> maybe, maybe not, but whats your alternative? don't teach history of generally ignored groups in ethnic studies?

Yes. My kids don’t need to learn Asian American history from some white lady. And they certainly don’t need their white friends being socialized to think of them as being somehow different. I don’t care how good the intentions are—teachers highlighting differences isn’t a good thing for visible minorities.

And if we insist on doing so, we should strive to be accurate. If you’re going to teach about the Chinese Exclusion Act, also teach the German American kids about when states banned the teaching of German. Teach Italian and Irish kids about anti-Catholic school legislation.

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