China plans to ban exports of rare earth magnet tech • Hacker News Board

Re: China plans to ban exports of rare earth magnet tech

#451

Post by paganel » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 6:50 AM UTC

zpeti wrote: post #432

snehk wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason why the US doesn't like China is because the US dislikes the idea of being the #2 economy and losing control. The US has absolutely no "morals" so to say and is allied with/provides literal military support to about 70% of dictatorships[1]. The US simply acts out of national interests, not morals. History proves this. I'm baffled by how many Americans repeat state propaganda points. [1] https://truthout.or…

> The reason why the US doesn't like China is because the US dislikes the idea of being the #2 economy and losing control And? Do you want Xi Xinping in charge of global culture, security, finance? How is that working out for your average Chinese these days (and I’m not talking about the previous freeer era). You want social credit scores? One man basically in charge of the global military? You paint a picture of Ame…

> And? Do you want Xi Xinping in charge of global culture, security, finance?

Why not? Granted, I'm not an American. I haven't heard any Chinese Foreign minister goading of having killed hundreds of thousands of kids the same way as the US did [1], so why shouldn't the rest of the world give China a chance instead of the US?

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP1OAD9jSaI

Re: China plans to ban exports of rare earth magnet tech

#452

Post by DiogenesKynikos » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 6:53 AM UTC

lmm wrote: post #428

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Chinese government does, at present, strongly favor the status quo. However, it's becoming increasingly clear that the US is shifting away from the One China policy. That shift is deeply alarming the Chinese government. There doesn't seem to be anyone in American politics who is capable of pressing the breaks, slowing down the drive towards confrontation, and reengaging in real diplomacy with China. In the end, t…

> However, it's becoming increasingly clear that the US is shifting away from the One China policy. That shift is deeply alarming the Chinese government. There doesn't seem to be anyone in American politics who is capable of pressing the breaks, slowing down the drive towards confrontation, and reengaging in real diplomacy with China. Funny, from this side it looks like the opposite: the US is shifting towards greate…

The timeline of how tensions have risen is very clear. The Trump administration began taking steps to undermine the One China policy, such as Trump holding an official call with the Taiwanese president, and calling for Taiwan to be included in international organizations that normally only accept sovereign states. Pelosi's trip was another major milestone, because it breaks the US' promise not to maintain official diplomatic ties with Taiwan. Biden's repeated statements that the US definitely will defend Taiwan are another milestone, because they jettison a decades-long American policy of strategic ambiguity. Things appear to be accelerating, with the Taiwanese president's visit to the US and meeting with Kevin McCarthy, and with increasing talk in the US about potentially backing formal Taiwanese independence.

China's reaction to this has been to reiterate its long-standing position, that it favors peaceful reunification but does not rule out military force as a last resort, and to increase military drills near Taiwan. China has been reactive here. For example, it held large military drills after Pelosi visited.

A lot of these developments are driven by American domestic politics, with the two parties competing to brandish their anti-China credentials. That drives then towards increasingly provocative actions, with little thought about the larger consequences of heading down this path.

The other element driving the shift in American policy is the fact that the naval balance of power in China's immediate periphery is shifting. The US Navy is still much stronger overall, but it may no longer be able to defeat China 100 km off of China's coast. In a decade, the balance will be even less advantageous for the US. This is a major motive for jettisoning strategic ambiguity, to force a change in Taiwan's status before the balance of power tilts further.

Re: China plans to ban exports of rare earth magnet tech

#453

Post by RedCondor » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 6:56 AM UTC

throwawaymaths wrote: post #405

senttoschool wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been trying to preach this on HN for months. The American propaganda is blindingly strong. The US will work with one-party countries as long as they're not a threat economically. How else do you think that Americans cheer when factories get moved to Vietnam, which is significantly worse in human rights? Both of these things can't be true at the same time: 1. The US is concerned for Chinese citizens economically…

What are you even talking about. China is regularly rated lower than Vietnam on human rights rankings and Vietnam is trending towards improvement. China is trending towards regression. https://www.rfa.org/english/news/vietnam/vietnams-human-righ...

RFA? Come on.

>Based on Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, it was established by the US International Broadcasting Act of 1994 with the stated aim of "promoting democratic values and human rights", and countering the narrative of the Chinese Communist Party, as well as providing media reports about the North Korean government.[12] It is funded and supervised by the U.S. Agency for Global Media[13] (formerly Broadcasting Board of Governors), an independent agency of the United States government.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Free_Asia

Re: China plans to ban exports of rare earth magnet tech

#454

Post by baq » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 6:56 AM UTC

paganel wrote: post #451

zpeti wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reason why the US doesn't like China is because the US dislikes the idea of being the #2 economy and losing control And? Do you want Xi Xinping in charge of global culture, security, finance? How is that working out for your average Chinese these days (and I’m not talking about the previous freeer era). You want social credit scores? One man basically in charge of the global military? You paint a picture of Ame…

> And? Do you want Xi Xinping in charge of global culture, security, finance? Why not? Granted, I'm not an American. I haven't heard any Chinese Foreign minister goading of having killed hundreds of thousands of kids the same way as the US did [1], so why shouldn't the rest of the world give China a chance instead of the US? [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP1OAD9jSaI

You haven’t heard because they are very good at being quiet about what they do. Google Uighur, then google further since you now know what to look for.

Re: China plans to ban exports of rare earth magnet tech

#455

Post by beebmam » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 6:57 AM UTC

snehk wrote: post #401

jacquesm wrote: post #230

In a way this is good news. The more China overplays its hand in this undeclared economic war the more likely that Western countries will realize that they are making the exact same mistake with China that they have made with Russia. You can't play nice with dictatorships in the hope that your long term economic interests will be aligned to the point that the other party will be forced to continue to play nice. China…

The reason why the US doesn't like China is because the US dislikes the idea of being the #2 economy and losing control. The US has absolutely no "morals" so to say and is allied with/provides literal military support to about 70% of dictatorships[1]. The US simply acts out of national interests, not morals. History proves this. I'm baffled by how many Americans repeat state propaganda points. [1] https://truthout.or…

The US is a state entity where its representatives are elected, and those representatives make the policy decisions on what nations get financial support for their militaries.

To claim that these representatives don't make their decisions based on morality, or any other value that individuals have, is strictly false.

One might argue that only individuals who have opinions in line with national interests are electable, but that would be bullshit. If there's anything to truly be internalized about the elections of Barack Obama followed by Donald Trump, it's that individuals have a profound influence on American policy. If there were national interests that were solely responsible for US policy, they why was both foreign and domestic policy profoundly different across presidencies?

I'm genuinely curious how your worldview has an answer to this.

Re: China plans to ban exports of rare earth magnet tech

#456

Post by DuckFeathers » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 6:57 AM UTC

rnk wrote: post #430

zapdrive wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the unprecedented indictment and arrest of an ex-president on trumped up and statutorily expired charges, how far is the US from a dictatorship? We already know about the rampant mass censorship, thanks to Twitter files expose, militarisation of police and accumulation of all wealth by a few corporates. The only thing left for a clear path towards dictatorship was persecution of political opponents.

I haven't heard any republicans upset about the indictment claim that Trump would never do such a thing as bribe someone to keep quiet and then file deliberately misleading tax reports, and lie on his taxes. Everyone, even his supporters thinks he does things like that. So mull that over. They are just mad it was brought to a court of law. I do wish the more serious charges had been filed first. The reason it was unp…

People support whatever they see as the lesser evil.

Everyone knows other politicians are slimy agents of large corporations and Trump is getting in legal trouble BECAUSE he stands a chance in the upcoming elections.

It is clear to everyone that Trump was blackmailed and he seems to have done something illegal to try to keep his affair out of public eye, where it belongs.

As much as you want to pretend how much you care about the rule of law, these things don't exist in a vacuum and most people are smart enough to see what's up.

Re: China plans to ban exports of rare earth magnet tech

#457

Post by herbst » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 6:58 AM UTC

paganel wrote: post #451

zpeti wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reason why the US doesn't like China is because the US dislikes the idea of being the #2 economy and losing control And? Do you want Xi Xinping in charge of global culture, security, finance? How is that working out for your average Chinese these days (and I’m not talking about the previous freeer era). You want social credit scores? One man basically in charge of the global military? You paint a picture of Ame…

> And? Do you want Xi Xinping in charge of global culture, security, finance? Why not? Granted, I'm not an American. I haven't heard any Chinese Foreign minister goading of having killed hundreds of thousands of kids the same way as the US did [1], so why shouldn't the rest of the world give China a chance instead of the US? [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP1OAD9jSaI

You will be downvoted and ignored for 'whataboutism' but what you say is still true and one of the many many reasons why many people in the western world do not follow, appreciate or even accept the US as quasi leader.

Re: China plans to ban exports of rare earth magnet tech

#458

Post by virtualritz » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 6:59 AM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #230

In a way this is good news. The more China overplays its hand in this undeclared economic war the more likely that Western countries will realize that they are making the exact same mistake with China that they have made with Russia. You can't play nice with dictatorships in the hope that your long term economic interests will be aligned to the point that the other party will be forced to continue to play nice. China…

You have a seemingly black and white world view.

The motivations for dictatorships and democracies to behave one way or another are ultimately governed by the same principles & constraints[1].

[1] https://youtu.be/rStL7niR7gs

Re: China plans to ban exports of rare earth magnet tech

#459

Post by kleene_op » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 7:02 AM UTC

herbst wrote: post #448

zpeti wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reason why the US doesn't like China is because the US dislikes the idea of being the #2 economy and losing control And? Do you want Xi Xinping in charge of global culture, security, finance? How is that working out for your average Chinese these days (and I’m not talking about the previous freeer era). You want social credit scores? One man basically in charge of the global military? You paint a picture of Ame…

Do we want America as a world leader? Enforcing their dated moral views on us trough controlling money flow and social media? We do have accept violence but no nudity in our media when our society is the exact opposite? Yes that's whatabouttism but the world actually does suffer from the current state as well

I'm not sure I want America to be the world leader. But I am definitely sure I don't want it to be China.

Re: China plans to ban exports of rare earth magnet tech

#460

Post by SkyMarshal » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 7:03 AM UTC

snehk wrote: post #401

jacquesm wrote: post #230

In a way this is good news. The more China overplays its hand in this undeclared economic war the more likely that Western countries will realize that they are making the exact same mistake with China that they have made with Russia. You can't play nice with dictatorships in the hope that your long term economic interests will be aligned to the point that the other party will be forced to continue to play nice. China…

The reason why the US doesn't like China is because the US dislikes the idea of being the #2 economy and losing control. The US has absolutely no "morals" so to say and is allied with/provides literal military support to about 70% of dictatorships[1]. The US simply acts out of national interests, not morals. History proves this. I'm baffled by how many Americans repeat state propaganda points. [1] https://truthout.or…

> The reason why the US doesn't like China is because the US dislikes the idea of being the #2 economy and losing control.

This comment gets thrown around a lot but oversimplifies things.

First, in the 90s, 2000s, and some of the 2010s ‘the US’ was China’s biggest cheerleader, investor, and supporter. Most US elites knew China would eventually become a bigger economy due to their 4x larger population, and were ok with it as long as they got to share in the wealth creation. To the extent those folks were the decision makers and thus ‘the US’, they didn’t dislike the idea of being the #2 economy.

Second, sure the US doesn’t want to lose control of the mostly peaceful, prosperous, and free rules-based order it created after the disastrous first half of the 20th century. And rightly so. There is zero chance that a cult of personality totalitarian dictator like Xi Jinping is ever going to make anything broadly better for the entire world than what the US created, despite its mistakes and flaws along the way. None. It’s completely legitimate for the US to not want to lose control of that, which would mean losing some or all of it to something worse.

I don’t agree with everything the US govt does - Iraq was a travesty, and I have no idea what went on with Libya, or what is going on with Syria, for example. But there’s a 0% chance that a world dominated by Xi Jinping and the CCP would be better.