On the experience of being dirt-poorish, for people who want to be • Hacker News Board

Re: On the experience of being dirt-poorish, for people who want to be

#81

Post by rex_gallorum2 » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 6:33 AM UTC

I found the discussion here more interesting than the article/blog post.

Most of you are talking at cross purposes, and there are some major intercultural communication problems here that are masked by everyone reading/writing in English.

If we were all part of a single culture and organic community, where the unwritten rules and mechanics of how things work and don't work are known to all, we could have a meaningful discussion, and perhaps debate the ethical aspects of the author's lifestyle.

But we are not and do not and can not.

I would argue that although the author wrote in English, what he wrote really only makes sense within a Swedish cultural context. I see comment after comment projecting foreign norms, values, and circumstances on the author without any knowledge whatsoever of how things work in Sweden.

I am even seeing classic stuff right out of Geert Hofstede's six dimensional culture model such as individualism vs. collectivism.

I don't expect everyone to understand this comment, but someone definitely will!

Re: On the experience of being dirt-poorish, for people who want to be

#82

Post by emptystation » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 10:50 AM UTC

dukeyukey wrote: post #71

friend_and_foe wrote: post #41

I relate to this quite a lot actually. Not the taking of charity type thing, I choose a somewhat similar lifestyle but I acknowledge that it is a choice, so I don't take freebies. Particularly > I would be working 40 hours a week and would get exactly nothing out of it, financially speaking. I relate to that a lot. And all the stuff after it. I don't consider it poverty , just a simpler way of living. I cut my monthl…

People move to cities because of the people. They want to meet people who get them, to work on stuff together, and to find people wildly different to them. I grew up in an isolated farming town and now live in London. Don't get me wrong, I _probably_ won't live here for the rest of my life, but I'm never moving back to my hometown. Not because it's uniquely bad, but because there was _so much_ stuff I wanted to do as…

Agree, cities are just plain more interesting for many.

I also believe that life should be about discovery and creating but I'm not exactly sure what can be discovered in a shack in a middle of nowhere unless you're very outdoorsy to begin with.

I grew up in a town that didn't have a movie theater (or any theater for that matter) or any type of music venue. Interesting books? Not available - low tech area, Internet was not a big thing yet, one bookstore in town, underfunded library filled with Soviet leftovers and some classics. I wanted to learn a language my grandparents spoke and I couldn't do it properly - no classes or speakers in the area. Hell, we didn't have a modern well-stocked grocery store for the majority of my childhood. When the first local pizzeria opened, people, myself included, were raving. I had only seen pizza on TV prior to that. I'm not going to even mention the social aspect and the loneliness.

These days I am an avid cinephile, I adore listening to live music, picked up two music instruments myself, go raves occasionally, have access to any book imaginable. Meet people, meet friends, start romantic relationships and maybe a family, pick new projects, new interests, etc.

Having varied food too is also cool. Sure, it's not the biggest thing it life but it adds so much flavor (pun intended). I've tried spinach for the first time when I was 23 when I moved to a city in a spinach-obsessed country. I had wanted to try it for years and finally got a chance. Loved it! Cook with it all the time now, spinach is great. :D I don't ever want to go back to a place where the opportunity for new experiences is scarce.

Re: On the experience of being dirt-poorish, for people who want to be

#83

Post by xyzzy123 » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 11:17 AM UTC

ano88888 wrote: post #33

bhawks wrote: post #28

The author seems quite selfish and manipulative of others. He chooses to live this way because it allows him to avoid social interactions with others. Unlike true poverty he could easily utilize both his relational capital (call parents, get cash) and educational capital (had the ability to get a professional job and turned it down) these are simply not options for people who are actually poor. He clearly wants more…

Since I came from a very poorish developing country, i can't understand some Europians contempt for wealth. I still lived in the poor country but i am making much more money than the OP and I am proud of it. They have this attitude of 'oh, i don't care about money' prabably they think their government is gonna be always be able to support them and their economy will always be good. Things change. These people will li…

If you live out in the woods, grow much of your own food and don't do many things that require money, I would argue you are quite well equipped to handle the most likely societal catastrophes.

What would be even better is knowing a few useful trades.

And if the government or economy fails, children are more or less the traditional sort of "insurance" against penury in old age.

Re: On the experience of being dirt-poorish, for people who want to be

#84

Post by gnrlst » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 1:37 PM UTC

Judging by his comment, he has close to 600K-1M+ SEK in savings. He's anything but "dirt-poorish"

Re: On the experience of being dirt-poorish, for people who want to be

#85

Post by 8jef » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 1:57 PM UTC

low_tech_love wrote: post #62

As a south american who lives in Sweden since a few years, this article is offensive and preposterous, exactly the kind of disconnected, absurd surreal nonsense that I have come to expect from the Swedes around me. The fact that this person honestly thinks the word "poor" applies to him is baffling. He chose to live a simple life, and even after trying very hard to screw everything up, he still can not manage to do s…

Downshifting is nothing an upshifting immigrant like yourself should be expected to understand. Keep on keeping on dude, show them lazy basterds how it's done!

Re: On the experience of being dirt-poorish, for people who want to be

#86

Post by s1artibartfast » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 6:10 PM UTC

Fascinating article and reactions to it. I think it cuts to the Core of the difference between being poor and being desperate. It also provides an Outsiders opinion on materialism and motivation as it relates to society at Large.

It also scratches the surface of what it means to be a parent, and the relative value of materially providing for children versus teaching values and skills.

Re: On the experience of being dirt-poorish, for people who want to be

#87

Post by low_tech_love » Fri, Apr 07, 2023, 7:36 AM UTC

superchroma wrote: post #2

I strongly disagree with the premise. This isn't proper poverty, this is a borderline agrarian lifestyle utilizing various allowances as well as support structures intended for the poor. The author has a personal safety net, as well as a social one supporting them, and took advantage of lax property enforcement to build a house on state land. If you have means and options like they do, you aren't dirt poor. This isn'…

Perfect. That’s what I wish I could say if I wasn’t personally affected by it. Thanks.

Re: On the experience of being dirt-poorish, for people who want to be

#88

Post by olau » Fri, Apr 07, 2023, 8:16 PM UTC

gizajob wrote: post #18

I enjoyed the article but felt the author is over-egging his frugality past the point of actual meanness. I find that money generally arrives at the level one mentally expects it to, and while he makes a point of saying he's not consuming, he still is, albeit at a low level, by picking through everyone's scraps, which can be as time consuming as putting a bit more thought into earning more for things like buying gift…

Having well-functioning children is valuable to a modern society like the Swedish.

Re: On the experience of being dirt-poorish, for people who want to be

#89

Post by olau » Fri, Apr 07, 2023, 8:49 PM UTC

rex_gallorum2 wrote: post #81

I found the discussion here more interesting than the article/blog post. Most of you are talking at cross purposes, and there are some major intercultural communication problems here that are masked by everyone reading/writing in English. If we were all part of a single culture and organic community, where the unwritten rules and mechanics of how things work and don't work are known to all, we could have a meaningful…

Another side of this is that when people are confronted with someone doing things different from what they're used to, their innate ego centrism makes them react if it is about them. It reopens the identity crisis of their teenage years.

I once experienced this on the board of a kindergarten. There was a public debate about whether kindergartens should have computers or not. The kindergarten I had my kids in thought not, for good reasons. When talking to the other parents, with some those reasons clicked immediately. But many were simply not able to digest them. They were stuck thinking about their own situation as parents and the fact that their children were using tablets at home. Big parenting identity crisis, no constructive discussion possible.