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China plans to ban exports of rare earth magnet tech

japannews.yomiuri.co.jp

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Re: China plans to ban exports of rare earth magnet tech

#371

Post by rodgerd »

klodolph wrote: post #237
jacquesm wrote: post #230

In a way this is good news. The more China overplays its hand in this undeclared economic war the more likely that Western countries will realize that they are making the exact same mistake with China that they have made with Russia. You can't play nice with dictatorships in the hope that your long term economic interests will be aligned to the point that the other party will be forced to continue to play nice. China…

I am less convinced that China is really good at playing the long game, and more convinced that China is subject to many of the same political struggles that we see in the US. It’s just so easy to tap into our fears of China that we want to believe that they’re this smart and ruthless. We look for evidence to validate our feelings. There are deposits of these rare earth minerals elsewhere. There are always more depos…

> I am less convinced that China is really good at playing the long game

The main difference is that China is good at ensuring that the state is not run for the benefit of a handful of companies and investors.

Which is not an endorsement of many of the other things the CCP inflicts on Chinese citizens.

Re: China plans to ban exports of rare earth magnet tech

#372

Post by ChatGTP »

ramblenode wrote: post #337
jacquesm wrote: post #230

In a way this is good news. The more China overplays its hand in this undeclared economic war the more likely that Western countries will realize that they are making the exact same mistake with China that they have made with Russia. You can't play nice with dictatorships in the hope that your long term economic interests will be aligned to the point that the other party will be forced to continue to play nice. China…

> You can't play nice with dictatorships in the hope that your long term economic interests will be aligned to the point that the other party will be forced to continue to play nice. This is a false equivalence of democracy = partner. The US has been happy to trade with friendly dictatorships (e.g. Saudi Arabia) and has itself threatened, overthrown, or interefered in democratic and popular governments (e.g. Chile) t…

People on HN mostly just like pretend America is perfect though, never invaded a country, dealt with criminals , dropped a nuclear bomb on a large city of civilians, etc. Only terrible people in Russia and China are capable of this.

I like America too, just important to consider a coin has multiple sides.

Re: China plans to ban exports of rare earth magnet tech

#373

Post by seanmcdirmid »

ChatGTP wrote: post #372
ramblenode wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can't play nice with dictatorships in the hope that your long term economic interests will be aligned to the point that the other party will be forced to continue to play nice. This is a false equivalence of democracy = partner. The US has been happy to trade with friendly dictatorships (e.g. Saudi Arabia) and has itself threatened, overthrown, or interefered in democratic and popular governments (e.g. Chile) t…

People on HN mostly just like pretend America is perfect though, never invaded a country, dealt with criminals , dropped a nuclear bomb on a large city of civilians, etc. Only terrible people in Russia and China are capable of this. I like America too, just important to consider a coin has multiple sides.

It feels like to me most people on HN have the opposite sentiment: America is evil, they invade countries just for fun, drop bombs just for the lutz. In contrast, there was a time when China got a lot of support on HN before their actions evaporated it.

Re: China plans to ban exports of rare earth magnet tech

#374

Post by tw1984 »

teh_klev wrote: post #368
Retric wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If by we you mean the US then we don’t. The US has effectively zero direct dependence on middle eastern oil due to domestic production and transportation costs. Canada is much closer and has a lot of oil. Where it matters is they can impact the global prices and thus what people pay at the pump. Though the actual profits from such spikes in American gas prices end up going to suppliers in America or Canada.

> The US has effectively zero direct dependence on middle eastern oil due to domestic production and transportation costs For now and whilst those extraction costs are cheaper domestically. The US needs the Saudis as a backstop and for infill of the types of crude oils the North American continent doesn't have access to or is in limited supply. They're also a handy client state to do the US's dirty work in the Middle…

> You need to look at the bigger picture.

The big picture is that the US needs middle east countries to price their oil in USD. Everything else is just a bonus.

Re: China plans to ban exports of rare earth magnet tech

#375

Post by [deleted] »

jacquesm wrote: post #291
humanistbot wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> non-democratic country Just because a country is a democracy does not mean it will be a reliable trading partner. Democracies can easily swing from free market to protectionist trade policies -- and back. Outsourcing a very large fraction of all manufacturing for half the world to any single country is an incredibly risky idea.

A non democratic country has fewer checks and balances on these things than the ones that do. But you are right, that's not a guarantee at all. Just a matter of degree.

[deleted]

Re: China plans to ban exports of rare earth magnet tech

#376

Post by throwA29B »

sohex wrote: post #46
causi wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not normal decoupling, we're in a full on economic war. In the short term that's terrible. In the long term, pain now will help minimize pain later when China invade Taiwan and US-China trade drops to zero overnight. It's coming sooner or later and the longer you leave your investments in China the more you risk the door slamming shut on your hand.

What does China actually stand to gain by invading Taiwan? Any kind of real analysis based in anything other than nationalistic fervor or fear mongering seems to indicate that they're better served by the status quo.

>What does China actually stand to gain by invading Taiwan?

Dignity. Healing of the last wound inflicted by invaders. China will be whole again.

And also removal of American puppet from their border and drastic decrease of US influence in the region.

Win-win.

Re: China plans to ban exports of rare earth magnet tech

#377

Post by [deleted] »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #151
dougmwne wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I understand, it is an affront to their regime. It’s an island of free, prosperous and democratic Chinese people. It’s a repudiation of everything the CCP stands for. In a very real sense, Taiwan is not a separate country, but a unconquered territory from the Civil War, the last bastion of the pre-1949 Republic of China, and a symbol of what could have been for all of China. Sure there are geopolitical reas…

> It’s an island of free, prosperous and democratic Chinese people. It’s a repudiation of everything the CCP stands for. This is really irrelevant to the conflict, which goes back long before Taiwan democratized (which was only in the late 1990s). The conflict is relatively simple. Taiwan was a province of China, and still is a part of the Republic of China. The People's Republic of China sees itself as the successor…

[deleted]

Re: China plans to ban exports of rare earth magnet tech

#378

Post by throwA29B »

dougmwne wrote: post #128
sohex wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does China actually stand to gain by invading Taiwan? Any kind of real analysis based in anything other than nationalistic fervor or fear mongering seems to indicate that they're better served by the status quo.

From what I understand, it is an affront to their regime. It’s an island of free, prosperous and democratic Chinese people. It’s a repudiation of everything the CCP stands for. In a very real sense, Taiwan is not a separate country, but a unconquered territory from the Civil War, the last bastion of the pre-1949 Republic of China, and a symbol of what could have been for all of China. Sure there are geopolitical reas…

Ugh... I read the same about Ukraine being a beacon of freedom, democracy, and prosperity and Putin being extremely mad because Russia has none of that, and Russians would be pointing fingers and asking questions... Which is utter rubbish.

I suggest you to educate yourself on the topic.

Re: China plans to ban exports of rare earth magnet tech

#379

Post by WillPostForFood »

Retric wrote: post #358
WillPostForFood wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yet somehow we leave them alone to openly torture, abuse and murder their citizens Huh, like maybe "a sizeable chunk of the world's oil and gas are sourced from "non-democratic" countries in the Middle East" is the problem, and the reason those countries get a pass? So like we shouldn't be outsourcing manufacturing, we shouldn't be outsourcing energy production to terrible countries.

If by we you mean the US then we don’t. The US has effectively zero direct dependence on middle eastern oil due to domestic production and transportation costs. Canada is much closer and has a lot of oil. Where it matters is they can impact the global prices and thus what people pay at the pump. Though the actual profits from such spikes in American gas prices end up going to suppliers in America or Canada.

We get ~12% of our oil from the middle east which is consequential but not what I meant.

You'll note that after Biden called Saudi Arabia a Pariah state, he was forced to reverse course and head over, hat in hand, and beg for more production. Not because of the 12% (or 10% or 8%), we directly consume, but because of the impact on inflation and the world economy.

So yes, we are beholden to middle east oil, not because we directly consume it, but because of the impact on energy prices and inflation. If we were maximizing our own energy production, not just for domestic consumption but for export, we could lessen that impact and the influence they have.

Re: China plans to ban exports of rare earth magnet tech

#380

Post by throwaway66383 »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #151
dougmwne wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I understand, it is an affront to their regime. It’s an island of free, prosperous and democratic Chinese people. It’s a repudiation of everything the CCP stands for. In a very real sense, Taiwan is not a separate country, but a unconquered territory from the Civil War, the last bastion of the pre-1949 Republic of China, and a symbol of what could have been for all of China. Sure there are geopolitical reas…

> It’s an island of free, prosperous and democratic Chinese people. It’s a repudiation of everything the CCP stands for. This is really irrelevant to the conflict, which goes back long before Taiwan democratized (which was only in the late 1990s). The conflict is relatively simple. Taiwan was a province of China, and still is a part of the Republic of China. The People's Republic of China sees itself as the successor…

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