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My U.S. Border Nightmare

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Re: My U.S. Border Nightmare

#121

Post by vacri »

salman89 wrote: post #91

I think that the author is misleading his readers. YC is a far cry from a training program. "Often this training involves setting up an American corporation for the startup activities - but I'll get to that later.". Why didn't he just say he was accepted into a start-up incubator, and his company was being funded in exchange for a piece of the company that was being incorporated, and that they were going to make a re…

"start-up incubator" doesn't make sense to people outside the industry, and may even seem to be cause for concern.

Re: My U.S. Border Nightmare

#122

Post by grecy »

joshAg wrote: post #112
grecy wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a foreigner being detained in the US, with no official status in the US, he had no right to a lawyer.

Theoretically, the constitution applies to all people in the united states jurisdiction, not just citizens. certain rights, like voting, are given only to citizens, but the Bill of Rights (which gives the right to a lawyer) applies to any person inside the US. Practically, there are a few exceptions to this, eg 4th amendment rights are suspended from everyone at the border and within 100 miles of the border.

>applies to any person inside the US.

When detained at a border, a person is not considered inside the US.

>Theoretically, the constitution applies to all people in the united states jurisdiction

That is absolutely not correct. When I enter the USA on the visa waiver program, it very, very clearly says I have no rights while in the USA. No right to a lawyer, no right to appeal, no right to anything. I must sign that to be allowed in.

Re: My U.S. Border Nightmare

#123

Post by pyre »

oldstrangers wrote: post #74
pyre wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will add an anecdote here. I have crossed the US-Canada land border many times. I've only ever been 'chewed out' by Canadian Border Patrol once . I've had this happen multiple times from the US Border Patrol and I'm a US citizen. The Canadian Border Patrol has always been calm, patient and understanding in my experience. The US border patrol is hit-or-miss. Some people are nice ( once I was only asked two questions…

Some more anecdotes. I've crossed into Canada twice, both times awful. The first time (crossing from Detroit, heading towards Toronto) required having my entire car searched. The people were extremely unpleasant. Probably took close to an hour at the border. Coming home through Buffalo took two seconds. Second time was heading to Montreal from NYC and the guard was just generally a dick. Again, returning home, the gu…

  > Maybe there's a system to the dickery, but probably
  > not. I think border guards are generally hit or miss,
  > regardless of their country.
I generally find that I've had fewer bad experiences by avoiding the Ambassador Bridge (Detroit), the Peace Bridge (Buffalo), and the Lewiston-Kingston Bridge (north of Niagara Falls).

The only bad experience I had with Canadian Border Officers was at the Lewiston-Kingston Bridge.

To me, this seems to make sense. These crossings are higher traffic than the other crossings (Rainbow Bridge, Detroit-Windsor Tunnel) in those areas. There may be more pressure on the guards at those crossings to be extra cautious, or they just might find people trying to pull stupid stuff more often (which re-enforces the idea that anyone is a potential 'evil-doer').

The other pattern that I've noticed is that most of the officers with chips on their shoulders reek of ex-military, whereas the more reasonable people don't give off that vibe.

Re: My U.S. Border Nightmare

#124

Post by adrianwaj »

grecy wrote: post #77
ugh wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t imagine that being a good idea. I’m not an US citizen and I wouldn’t ever want to speak up against any US border guard in any way. That doesn’t seem like a wise idea to me. They don’t have to leave me in. I don’t have any rights, right?

> I don’t have any rights, right? Exactly. By very definition, when I enter the USA under the visa waiver program, I have to sign the back of the form, which essentially says "You have no rights". (That's actually what the guard was talking about when he asked if I could read) Even when I've applied for a working visa, been interviewed and approved, paid the fees, have an entire page visa in my passport and caught a…

hmm, maybe you're giving off unconscious vibes that create those situations because they know they can get away with it.

Re: My U.S. Border Nightmare

#125

Post by vacri »

joshAg wrote: post #112
grecy wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a foreigner being detained in the US, with no official status in the US, he had no right to a lawyer.

Theoretically, the constitution applies to all people in the united states jurisdiction, not just citizens. certain rights, like voting, are given only to citizens, but the Bill of Rights (which gives the right to a lawyer) applies to any person inside the US. Practically, there are a few exceptions to this, eg 4th amendment rights are suspended from everyone at the border and within 100 miles of the border.

Wasn't this part of the hysteria about the Guantanamo Bay detainees; that if they were brought to the mainland, they'd have to be allowed due process?

Re: My U.S. Border Nightmare

#126

Post by patio11 »

I have a certain amount of sympathy given that Japanese immigration features in all of my nightmares.

That said, attempting to cross borders for the purpose of working illegally (sorry, I don't like the law either, but there is no conceivable way that YC does not count as employment) will not endear you to law enforcement. I wish they had been more polite in the course of discovering your true purpose and refusing you entry, but if they hadn't, that would have been a crazy result under US immigration law.

There's better ways to handle one's business and legal affairs tactically, but start with knowing that the US really doesn't have a visa category "People from countries we like, for any purposes whatsoever, no questions."

Re: My U.S. Border Nightmare

#127

Post by lambda »

lancewiggs wrote: post #36

This is sadly a pretty obvious case. The author was moving to the US to start a company. It wasn't to travel, nor to pop in and out to conduct business, and calling yCombinator a training program is a stretch. It might be, but it's a 'training program' that helps you start a business. A simple google would have told the agent what was what. Blame dumb visa requirements, not the agents who actually managed to catch yo…

I would go so far as to say that calling YCombinator "training" is an outright lie. It's a business incubator and angel investment program; they pay you to develop a prototype, and introduce you to potential investors.

I feel misled after reading the article. Not knowing the context, I assumed that he was actually referring to some sort of training; something like business school, in which you pay to be taught. Instead, being given an initial investment to form a corporation, write a prototype, and shop it around to venture capitalists is pretty much the definition of "doing business," even if it is only the first few steps.

I can imagine why CBP officers would feel misled as well. And it doesn't help that he is saying he had no intention of keeping the business in the US. Starting up a business in the US just to take the capital and move the business overseas? This isn't something that a lot of border officers are going to take kindly to, nor is there likely to be much in the way of laws encouraging it.

I would absolutely like to make it easier for successful, smart, and educated people to immigrate to the US, and make it easy for people to immigrate to the US in order to start a business. But going to the US to hit up investors, work for three months to get a prototype going, and then move the business elsewhere? You're going to have a hard time selling that.

Re: My U.S. Border Nightmare

#128

Post by burgerbrain »

potatolicious wrote: post #8

Author seems a bit naive about international sovereignty, though I suppose one can't exactly blame him for it. I grew up in Vancouver, a stone's throw from the border, so I suppose I take it for granted that we all learn very early on that CBP is a wretched hive of scum and villainy, and everyone knows someone who was chewed out, berated, and generally treated like a criminal by them. Seeing as how I work in the US n…

"You have no right to enter a country where you are not a citizen, regardless of what treaties and protocols your two nations have set up."

I am a citizen, so I have a right to enter this country. Why is it that they harass me?

I suspect they just like harassing everybody. Citizenship is barely involved.

Re: My U.S. Border Nightmare

#129

Post by brusch »

potatolicious wrote: post #8

Author seems a bit naive about international sovereignty, though I suppose one can't exactly blame him for it. I grew up in Vancouver, a stone's throw from the border, so I suppose I take it for granted that we all learn very early on that CBP is a wretched hive of scum and villainy, and everyone knows someone who was chewed out, berated, and generally treated like a criminal by them. Seeing as how I work in the US n…

As someone growing up at a border (1 mile from the Austrian / Swiss border) - I have to say that this is a whole different thing in Europe (between Switzerland / Austria / Germany for sure). Well you get checked for the stuff and if you are over the allowed quantities for the stuff you have with you - and you may have to show your ID but that's it. If you didn't do any wrong you have no problems.

For me (and many families in my town) it was completely normal to shop in Switzerland, or go to the gym there. I've once switched the border every day just to use the swiss highway, cause my commute was shorter and faster this way.

Reminder: Switzerland is not part of the EU (european union)

Re: My U.S. Border Nightmare

#130

Post by buro9 »

lancewiggs wrote: post #36

This is sadly a pretty obvious case. The author was moving to the US to start a company. It wasn't to travel, nor to pop in and out to conduct business, and calling yCombinator a training program is a stretch. It might be, but it's a 'training program' that helps you start a business. A simple google would have told the agent what was what. Blame dumb visa requirements, not the agents who actually managed to catch yo…

I can't help but agree.

Perhaps if he was able to prove that his business was not in the USA and that it would not be in the USA, then he may have been able to show the difference between training and returning, and incubating a new business.

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