Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

China plans to ban exports of rare earth magnet tech

japannews.yomiuri.co.jp

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 611 posts

Re: China plans to ban exports of rare earth magnet tech

#21

Post by Proven »

echelon wrote: post #15
moose_man wrote: post #2

"China is estimated to hold an about 84% share of the global market in neodymium magnets and an over 90% interest in samarium cobalt magnets. Japan, meanwhile, has about 15% of the neodymium magnet market and a less-than-10% share of that for samarium cobalt. If China bans the export of such technologies, it would be difficult for the United States and Europe, which do not traditionally manufacture rare earth magnets…

The bigger story is the recent push to settle trade in Yuan instead of USD. BRICS [1] , Saudi Arabia [2], many South American [3] and ASEAN countries [4], (and even France [5]!) have signed on to do Yuan-based settlement. This is the strongest concerted effort to kill the petrodollar and Bretton Woods. It would have devasting impact to the US economy if this trend continues. The US economy and our special ability to…

[dead]

Re: China plans to ban exports of rare earth magnet tech

#22

Post by moose_man »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #19
jmclnx wrote: post #7

I read "Rare Earths" are nor really rare. But the article did say extracting these elements cheaply causes a lot of environmental damage, which as we know, China is perfectly fine with. I also read the US is close to opening a "mining" site for Rear Earths, but not sure where or for what elements.

The US has always had rare earth mines, but competition from low cost producers in China makes them economically unviable (and the US is market based, among other things). There is plenty of supply in developed countries, but being undercut by other producers require government subsidies or a more closed market to be viable. If China refuses to export this stuff themselves, it actually makes these mines more economic…

Yeah China purposefully undermined the competition through state funding in order to control the market.

Re: China plans to ban exports of rare earth magnet tech

#24

Post by seanmcdirmid »

moose_man wrote: post #22
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has always had rare earth mines, but competition from low cost producers in China makes them economically unviable (and the US is market based, among other things). There is plenty of supply in developed countries, but being undercut by other producers require government subsidies or a more closed market to be viable. If China refuses to export this stuff themselves, it actually makes these mines more economic…

Yeah China purposefully undermined the competition through state funding in order to control the market.

I doubt it was that, I think China's lack of environmental rule enforcement led to a condition that allowed for lower cost producers, the state didn't intend on controlling this market (or maybe some combination of that, but refusing to export in the future means they won't control the market anymore).

Re: China plans to ban exports of rare earth magnet tech

#25

Post by vkou »

moose_man wrote: post #20
barelysapient wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think its more a tit-for-tat response to previous US trade restrictions.

I mean, the US move was tit-for-tat for a decade of militarizing the South China Sea, threatening war against Taiwan, undermining the US economy through stealing trade secrets and sponsoring national champions.

Only the US, after all, is allowed to militarize the South China sea.

Re: China plans to ban exports of rare earth magnet tech

#26

Post by moose_man »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #24
moose_man wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah China purposefully undermined the competition through state funding in order to control the market.

I doubt it was that, I think China's lack of environmental rule enforcement led to a condition that allowed for lower cost producers, the state didn't intend on controlling this market (or maybe some combination of that, but refusing to export in the future means they won't control the market anymore).

No, it's pretty clear that this was a top down effort to control the global market, a concerted effort by the state.

https://www.china-briefing.com/news/china-merges-three-rare-...

Re: China plans to ban exports of rare earth magnet tech

#27

Post by robocat »

jmclnx wrote: post #7

I read "Rare Earths" are nor really rare. But the article did say extracting these elements cheaply causes a lot of environmental damage, which as we know, China is perfectly fine with. I also read the US is close to opening a "mining" site for Rear Earths, but not sure where or for what elements.

> environmental damage which China is perfectly fine with

“China has outsourced much of its rare earth mining industry to Myanmar’s Kachin state” https://news.mongabay.com/2022/08/toxic-rare-earth-mines-fue... (maybe overstated, but definitely a real issue).

Re: China plans to ban exports of rare earth magnet tech

#28

Post by aarreedd »

augment001 wrote: post #10
nivenkos wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly, the West is looking more and more authoritarian though.

Unfortunately so, but by comparison to China it has a very long way to go.

This comment was marked as "dead" for couple minutes. Visible again now. I was about to ask why.

Re: China plans to ban exports of rare earth magnet tech

#29

Post by causi »

echelon wrote: post #15
moose_man wrote: post #2

"China is estimated to hold an about 84% share of the global market in neodymium magnets and an over 90% interest in samarium cobalt magnets. Japan, meanwhile, has about 15% of the neodymium magnet market and a less-than-10% share of that for samarium cobalt. If China bans the export of such technologies, it would be difficult for the United States and Europe, which do not traditionally manufacture rare earth magnets…

The bigger story is the recent push to settle trade in Yuan instead of USD. BRICS [1] , Saudi Arabia [2], many South American [3] and ASEAN countries [4], (and even France [5]!) have signed on to do Yuan-based settlement. This is the strongest concerted effort to kill the petrodollar and Bretton Woods. It would have devasting impact to the US economy if this trend continues. The US economy and our special ability to…

I have doubts China is suddenly going to decide to stop its extreme currency manipulation. The question is how quickly it will bite the countries trading in it.

Re: China plans to ban exports of rare earth magnet tech

#30

Post by ren_engineer »

moose_man wrote: post #2

"China is estimated to hold an about 84% share of the global market in neodymium magnets and an over 90% interest in samarium cobalt magnets. Japan, meanwhile, has about 15% of the neodymium magnet market and a less-than-10% share of that for samarium cobalt. If China bans the export of such technologies, it would be difficult for the United States and Europe, which do not traditionally manufacture rare earth magnets…

plenty of people have been warning about this for years with regards to the push towards renewable energy and electric cars. China makes 70-80% of the components of solar panels globally.

the idea that manufacturing is somehow low value and "services" are what developed economies should focus on is one of the dumbest concepts in human history. It will take the US decades to rebuild their manufacturing base

Post reply on HN