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Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

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141–150 of 381 posts

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#141
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When apartheid South Africa was a pariah state the world held the voting population of South Africa accountable as a collective, rather than just pretending it was only the elite in government making all choices. Although the system was corrupt and hardly a full free and fair election even within the limited racial franchise the country was allowed, the white voting public and corporate and civil society elite had mo…

Should the same apply to Western governments and their people? Should every American be held responsible for all the US war crimes and bombings in the Middle East, Africa etc? Or can that be filed under "whatabaoutism" and ignored?

> Or can that be filed under "whatabaoutism" and ignored?

One does not imply the other. It can be "whataboutism" in that it doesn't respond to the Russian topic in this thread. And we needn't ignore it. Write an article about the misdeeds of the Western governments and we'll discuss them in that thread. But US war crimes and bombings don't excuse Russia's current invasion of Ukraine.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#142

Russians have never had any real individual rights. Throughout their history the common people have just been resources enslaved to brutal overlords. The Soviets were perhaps somewhat softer overlords on average, but the principle remains. The state will dispose of disobedient people the same way it would dispose of rotten potatoes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8ZqBLcIvw0

perhaps. but russians were always dicks to themselves first. however, ask the american natives and the blacks what they think about individual rights in the us

but then again, for sake of fairness, lest we forget that russia, as part of ussr, was a pioneer in workers, women and ethnic rights. so much so that during the 1920s if you were a trade unionist, a feminist or fighting for national liberation of your people you most certainly ran the risk of being labeled a russian agent.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#143
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an immigrant that legally migrated into Schengen from outside Schengen. I currently have a temporary residence permit. I don't come from a country basically at war with NATO, I have a job, I earn good money, I contribute to society, I follow the laws, and still this is the most difficult thing I have ever done in my whole life, and it is not particularly close. It is expensive, it is time consuming, it is life co…

Well this explains the situation exactly. People are oppressed into being hopeless. How Russian that seems.

> People are oppressed into being hopeless.

The way I look at it is, life is just way harder for most people than it is for people lucky enough to be born in the west, and it is difficult for westerners to comprehend.

When you say oppressed, it implies an oppressor, in reality, to not have "oppression" takes centuries of bloodshed and tradition.

The reason the country I'm moving from is a shithole is because we have not paid the blood price to not be a shithole, like Europe has paid. And I don't want to be around to pay that blood price, I'm too much of a coward, and I can see it coming, it is palpable, you know it is a matter of years before there is civil war and blood in the streets, there is no other way, there is just so far to fall before life is worthless, and I can see things falling every day there. I know it is just a matter of time before my parents get murdered in a civil war, but I'm powerless to stop it, and they know it also, but they pretend it does not matter. So you just have to do everything you can to ignore it, and do your best to keep gambling, hoping you win the lottery out of the shithole.

And again, I'm not Russian, Russians have it 1000x times worse than me, I thank the god I don't believe in every day that I don't have it as hard as they do.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#144
post #117
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that support for Ukraine is one aspect that crosses demographics here in the UK, Left and Right, Young and Old, Leave and Remain, all fully oppose Russia and broadly support the efforts the UK and the west in general have done. It seems to be that a significant number of people in America seem to support the Russian narrative.

That’s what their media is telling them.

And is your media not telling you this?

Is there any entity that actually knows what's going on in the minds of those who aren't onboard with the default? Of course not, how could they? And yet, what do we read every day online?

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#145
post #21
post #5

Any Russians on here to explain why dissenters wouldn’t work on leaving the country rather than token demonstrations like this?

Any sane person who isn't a brain-washed z-patriot has already left Russia or at least staying quiet. At this point North Korea is a democracy compared to russia.

Well, that was the whole premise of the question though.

Of course there are many millions of Russians who oppose the war and who still stay in Russia. And some of them are not staying quiet.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#146
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try following along instead of wrongly claiming scepticism towards something that is well documented.

Are you suggesting that I start blindly taking the mainstream media's reporting about war at good faith? Aren't there enough historic examples of how the American media establishment have been used to further American foreign policy objectives? I've always thought of myself as left-wing. I came of age in the 'War on Terror', and recall the collective skepticism of the American establishment. I remember the attitude o…

>Are you suggesting that I start blindly taking the mainstream media's reporting about war at good faith?

No, you're being asked to at least attempt to find out the truth rather than dismiss all reporting as western propaganda. What would you accept as the truth? Would you accept Ukrainian reporting?

Here's a Ukrainian documentary about two children who were essentially kidnapped and managed to escape with the help of an aid group in Ukraine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPyWA9ZK4Qs

TL;DR they were in occupied territory and their school principle set up a "2 week study trip" to Crimea. After the 2 weeks were up they were not released and were instead forcibly enrolled in new boarding schools.

Here's another interview with kids who were eventually released: https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/11zpeuy/children_t...

There are posts on social media of Russians who are "adopting" children from occupied territory https://mobile.twitter.com/saintjavelin/status/1642893921024...

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#147
As Russian who left the country on February 25th 2022 I can strongly recommend following substack for those who curios about economical and political situation inside the country:

https://ironcurtain.substack.com/

Author is Sergey Aleksashenko who is economist and former government official. He now live in US and actively support Ukraine, but he have really neutral and realistic view on events.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure the problem is a circle of oligarchs, cronies, and ex-KGB turning the government into a sadistic mob state, and their citizens poor as hell.

This seems pretty similar to descriptions of Russia in 1918 as well. What's up with this place? Maybe it's the cultural influence of the Mongol invasion?

Little to do with culture, everything to do with infrastructure, geography and for the 20th century and onwards messy politics. Russias geography is... rather paradoxical.

It's a country with pretty much some of the biggest landmass on earth, but very few of that landmass has been exploitable for resources. For most of history this has largely been due to its climate being rather hostile to humans - Russias more navigable areas are up north, which isn't great if you want to use it for things like farmland and other basic needs. The southern part of the country is on the other hand rather mountainous, which is also hard to grow resources on.

All of that has resulted in a country where most people congregate in big cities and an infrastructure that outside of those cities is just... barely existent.

The result is that anyone wanting to lead Russia will invariably end up gravitating towards concentrated leadership; the individual cities where most Russian citizens live don't have the resources around them to entirely sustain themselves independently, so all of them need to stay together. Combine that with a poor infrastructure and anyone looking for a power grab in the capital has an easy opportunity to do so if a vacuum ever arises[0].

[0]: The tsar was basically a monarch, which historically has been in general how countries operate. Lenin was specifically send to Russia by the Germans to attempt and disrupt the Russian front during WW1 (and Stalin can be summarized as "Lenin but worse"). The between leaders after Stalin were trying to uphold the same beliefs as him. Putin's powergrab is the result of him taking advantage of the fact that Yeltsin screwed up the de-sovietization process and just dumped Russia into anarcho-capitalism overnight (there was basically no transition process between the Soviet model and neoliberalism, which resulted in anarcho-capitalism).

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#150

Russians have never had any real individual rights. Throughout their history the common people have just been resources enslaved to brutal overlords. The Soviets were perhaps somewhat softer overlords on average, but the principle remains. The state will dispose of disobedient people the same way it would dispose of rotten potatoes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8ZqBLcIvw0

> Russians have never had any real individual rights.

To take a step back and think about things (not that I'm suggesting what I think)... in most places for most of history it's been about the group. The collective. Being heavily individualized is a modern and western thing.

So, why is one way right and another way wrong?

Note, I do not agree with what's going on with Russia. I'm simply bringing up the higher level question that's often assumed but rarely looked at.

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