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Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

economist.com

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Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#51

Post by 5e92cb50239222b »

VincentEvans wrote: post #9

To an observer not closely following the extraordinary cycle of internal repressions taking place in Russia following its invasion of Ukraine - the news coming out of there, such as this one - may appear sensationalized. Surely this level of judicial evil is overstated! It’s not. The show trials over alleged enemies of the state reminiscent of Stalin are becoming routine. Regular people receiving sentences of 7 years…

I really wish this got more attention (but I guess Russian citizens receive zero sympathy these days, their political position notwithstanding). Maybe then we would see less of this tiresome bullshit from keyboard warriors from around the globe who blame ordinary citizens for being unwilling to throw themselves unarmed against a neo-Stalinist dictatorship that the West has supported for more than two decades.

The EU only banned sales of riot control gear and weaponry in October 2022! and they're still buying tons and tons of oil, gas, diamonds, and other natural resources that directly finance the war (taxes on natural resources go to the army pretty much right away, unlike taxes on sales and salaries that finance local projects like roads and schools). In fact, Russia made record profits last year.

I do not live in Russia, but I have enough experience living under a strongly authoritarian rule to know what it's like. Another favorite of the West in fact, that did terrible things to the people in January 2022, and no-one batted an eye.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#54

Post by flanked-evergl »

jimbob45 wrote: post #5

Any Russians on here to explain why dissenters wouldn’t work on leaving the country rather than token demonstrations like this?

I'm an immigrant that legally migrated into Schengen from outside Schengen. I currently have a temporary residence permit. I don't come from a country basically at war with NATO, I have a job, I earn good money, I contribute to society, I follow the laws, and still this is the most difficult thing I have ever done in my whole life, and it is not particularly close. It is expensive, it is time consuming, it is life consuming, every single step in the process is a gamble that could end up ruining my whole life in addition to taking all savings I ever had.

I feel like every day is a struggle just to keep my head above water. Even after doing everything I need to get permanent residence, I still have to wait 16 months for approval, which is longer than my temporary residence permit, and they won't renew that.

Immigrating to a country is hard. I don't blame the country I'm moving into, I get it, they have laws, but damn do I wish it was just a little bit easier.

Given how hard this is, think about how hard it will be for someone from Russia. If you just had the faintest inkling of how difficult it is, you would understand how absurd your question is.

I wish I could have it as easy as just walking in and demanding things, too bad that will guarantee that I never get to permanently decouple myself from the shithole that I was born in. And to be quite fair, knowing what I know now, about how difficult it is, I am not sure if it is even worth it.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#56

Post by formerly_proven »

eitland wrote: post #44
jimbob45 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is vehemently disowning the art piece not enough to avoid jail or is it to the point where they’re jailing people for any excuse at all?

This is Russia. No reason is actually needed. They'll take care of making an excuse. Last year I saw a video of a woman getting rounded up while she was being interviewed and expressing her belief in the authorities. She was just standing with a camera team next to a demonstration. Wrong place at the wrong time I think.

Oh I think I saw the same clip… one of those street interviews and a woman walks up and starts going like “You won’t dare showing this but I tell you I and many others support our preside-“ and gets nabbed by Russian police.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#57

Post by xpe »

foobarian wrote: post #12
footlose_3815 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure the problem is a circle of oligarchs, cronies, and ex-KGB turning the government into a sadistic mob state, and their citizens poor as hell.

This seems pretty similar to descriptions of Russia in 1918 as well. What's up with this place? Maybe it's the cultural influence of the Mongol invasion?

What kind of explanation are you seeking?

Are you looking for broad “reasons” why history has unfolded the way it did?

What if Russia’s history is not improbable? What if “Western” {democracy + variants of capitalism + colonialism + etc} is actually more of a surprise, probabilistically?

Have you read various commentaries that draw associations and even causal links between natural resources and history? For example, extractable resources tend to correspond with countries that get exploited, either by outsiders or (autocratic or oligarchic) insiders.

(Opinion: Even democratic capitalist countries don’t share a region’s internal wealth very fairly. But it seems that this approach is better than capture by inefficient and corrupt command-and-control forms of government.)

In any case, geopolitical history rarely offers sample sizes large enough to proffer convincing statistical analysis. At best, historians point out convincing theories and evidence of how they play out.

P.S. I use curlies and parens for this crowd because it reduces ambiguity. :)

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#58

Post by chupasaurus »

firebaze wrote: post #22
apples_oranges wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leaving the country is not easy.. you just need one grandmother that needs care and you're stuck

Also, most european countries don't allow russian¹² refugees anymore, and traveling by plane into western countries is impossible for (non-oligarch-level-wealthy) russians. ¹ germany: https://www.proasyl.de/en/news/germany-federal-office-for-mi... ² finland: https://thebarentsobserver.com/ru/node/189

Moscow - Astana flight with luggage is ~230 USD, railroad is even cheaper, that's about all the additional expenses. The visas are the main issue.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#59

Post by orthoxerox »

jimbob45 wrote: post #5

Any Russians on here to explain why dissenters wouldn’t work on leaving the country rather than token demonstrations like this?

About 30% of Russians are against the war (20% don't know, 50% support the war). That's about 40 million people that would have to leave the country.

Only 30% of Russians have travel passports, and most of them used them to travel to Ukraine, Kazakhstan and other ex-Soviet countries to visit their relatives.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#60

Post by xpe »

esarbe wrote: post #25
foobarian wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems pretty similar to descriptions of Russia in 1918 as well. What's up with this place? Maybe it's the cultural influence of the Mongol invasion?

Yeah, I think the Mongols broke Russia to the yoke of Empire.

Can you say more?

Can you think of similar examples where history seems to go the other way?

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