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The case for banning children from social media

newyorker.com

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Re: The case for banning children from social media

#341

Post by Thlom »

deafpolygon wrote: post #162
marcus_holmes wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forcing social media companies to charge for accounts would be my first approach. Either by taxing it so much that they have to, or by explicitly requiring payment. I'm not sure how you'd define "social media" vs say, HN (or is HN social media?). Taxing advertising revenue at a higher rate could also do it (hmm, thinking about this, this might solve a lot more problems too). For countries that don't do credit cards,…

> Forcing social media companies to charge for accounts would be my first approach. It may work at first, but it will devolve into a stratified system of people who can afford it, and those who can't.

Something Awful are charging $10 for an account and it's basically just trolls. :-)

Re: The case for banning children from social media

#342

Post by bsenftner »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #276
Animats wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not clear how you could effectively regulate this stuff It's not hard. It just upsets vested interests. Make it illegal to show ads to kids. You don't have to make "kid" identification airtight, because few people of any age want to opt into ads. The ad industry was very upset when the American Psychological Association proposed this back in 2004.[1] This doesn't raise constitutional issues because ads are con…

That solution fails to sidestep the not minor issue of how do we determine it's a child online brought up by the article.

How's about we start testing for maturity, and despite a person being 45 years of age, their maturity tests to be 12 years of age, so no social media for them. That would actually be significantly better for everyone involved. But who can trust anyone with a "maturity test" and then who can be trusted to administer said test honestly? Perhaps our entire society is immature and nobody deserves social media?

Re: The case for banning children from social media

#343

Post by DoreenMichele »

bsenftner wrote: post #342
DoreenMichele wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That solution fails to sidestep the not minor issue of how do we determine it's a child online brought up by the article.

How's about we start testing for maturity, and despite a person being 45 years of age, their maturity tests to be 12 years of age, so no social media for them. That would actually be significantly better for everyone involved. But who can trust anyone with a "maturity test" and then who can be trusted to administer said test honestly? Perhaps our entire society is immature and nobody deserves social media?

Perhaps our entire society is immature...and it's time we grew tf up.

Re: The case for banning children from social media

#344

Post by XorNot »

nextlevelwizard wrote: post #323
XorNot wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As noted by another poster[1]: how are you going to enforce it? The idea of banning people from seeking things they want to do to themselves is incredibly stupid with the "War on Drugs" and it's equally stupid here with all the same consequences: a sudden explosion of either unregulated social media alternatives (back in the day Napster had a chat function even), or suspiciously immature "18 year olds" on Facebook an…

I think this is pretty silly arguments. People love to say that the war on drugs didn't work, but I for one haven't consumed illegal drugs even though I have been curious at times. Since I haven't spent time with people who regularly break the law I have not been introduced to any element where I could have had access to illegal drugs. So war on drugs has worked at least on me and I live under to illusion that I am s…

I reiterate my first question: how are you going to enforce it?

Because the war on drugs has a very specific enforcement mechanism: people who take drugs are given criminal records, locked up in prison, and have their future opportunities permanently curtailed.

Is this your plan for an under-18 accessing social media? Do you think a policy of "we're going to help teens with their mental health" is going to accomplish that goal by specifically and overtly destroying it?

And if that's not your plan, then what is it?

Re: The case for banning children from social media

#345

Post by exitb »

ok_dad wrote: post #340
exitb wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't that include most children-directed media, as it inevitably ends up being an ad for related merchandise?

Perhaps, and I'm fine with that. Children's media shouldn't be funded by corporate advertising directed at the children, period. I don't care what kind of sledgehammer that takes to the ad industry, I care about the children's well-being. Next, let's ban all advertising, is what I'm thinking.

I like to play the Pokemon card game with my son. Yes - his interest in that corporate franchise leads us to some spending, but I don't find that excessive for the benefit we get from it, which goes beyond fun, as he learns strategy, focus, pattern application, counting etc. I don't think my son would be better off without that in his life. I also don't find it unreasonable for the corporation to profit of the product they provide.

Re: The case for banning children from social media

#346

Post by checkyoursudo »

hackernewds wrote: post #156
tastysandwich wrote: post #46

I just don't see any alternatives to banning social media, perhaps even up to the age of 18. The dopaminergic effects are not dissimilar to drugs and social media is just as addictive. It's not clear how you could effectively regulate this stuff - especially in our highly polarised political climate. The right will immediately target "wokeness", and the left will immediately target "hate speech". And the kids will be…

if the dopaminergic effects are not dissimilar to drugs, and evidently just as bad, why not ban them for adults as well?

The effects on developing versus developed brains is different for most things, including drugs and other psychological/psychosomatic stimuli.

Also, we give adults the freedom to fuck themselves up to a great extent that probably most people think it would be unethical with children.

Re: The case for banning children from social media

#347

Post by burnished »

nextlevelwizard wrote: post #317
tehnub wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With HN and other sites with a non-personalized feed, at least what you see is the same as what everyone else sees. And if there's voting, which isn't perfect, it's based on community feedback.

How hard is it to add "upvotes" to TikTok and fake that it is based on community feedback? How do you know that HN isn't personalized for you?

Well, you can go ahead and independently verify something like that pretty easily. Kind of weird to veer towards lies and malice at the drop of a hat here

Re: The case for banning children from social media

#348

Post by cykros »

kevinmchugh wrote: post #67
tastysandwich wrote: post #46

I just don't see any alternatives to banning social media, perhaps even up to the age of 18. The dopaminergic effects are not dissimilar to drugs and social media is just as addictive. It's not clear how you could effectively regulate this stuff - especially in our highly polarised political climate. The right will immediately target "wokeness", and the left will immediately target "hate speech". And the kids will be…

Social media is unlike drugs in that if you abstain while your peers use you're in some ways worse off. I wonder if there's a narrower ban to be had, either on image usage or especially on filters

That may be true of illegal drugs, but if you abstain from alcohol you may well be missing out on some social opportunities, and depending on your profession, that could extend to professional opportunities (though admittedly less now than in decades past). Cigarettes for a long time also had this quality, though that's mostly done.

Re: The case for banning children from social media

#349

Post by ok_dad »

exitb wrote: post #345
ok_dad wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps, and I'm fine with that. Children's media shouldn't be funded by corporate advertising directed at the children, period. I don't care what kind of sledgehammer that takes to the ad industry, I care about the children's well-being. Next, let's ban all advertising, is what I'm thinking.

I like to play the Pokemon card game with my son. Yes - his interest in that corporate franchise leads us to some spending, but I don't find that excessive for the benefit we get from it, which goes beyond fun, as he learns strategy, focus, pattern application, counting etc. I don't think my son would be better off without that in his life. I also don't find it unreasonable for the corporation to profit of the produc…

How does banning advertising, even all advertising, prevent the company from making Pokemon card games? I assume you mean the mobile game, which is very predatory with microtransactions and such (check their recent price increases for shit you can use to win the game). I would be fine with that particular type of system ("freemium", "loot boxes", "pay to win") being banned and eliminated from existence. Pokemon existed long before all of the current bullshit and something similar will be around even without all the ad-driven nonsense.

I have to go to sleep, but I'm militant in my hate for advertising. I would burn the entire idea of advertising to cinders.

Re: The case for banning children from social media

#350

Post by cykros »

MandieD wrote: post #262
jen20 wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt there is a unified campaign that can attract both poles of US society, they’d need to be targeted at each individually.

Addressing center-left, middle-class women (like myself): "Worried about your son being sucked into the incel movement because he watched some video game playthroughs? Concerned that your daughter's depression is being driven by the unrealistic standards of femininity that influencers are pushing into her Instagram feed? Is your kid a zombie after spending more than a few minutes on TikTok? Did your mother become irr…

Whoa whoa whoa, you had me until the husband part. You can't just go letting people be WRONG on the Internet without stepping up and doing something about it.

https://xkcd.com/386/

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