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The case for banning children from social media

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Re: The case for banning children from social media

#321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another problem is the definition of "ad". Is kid playing with fancy toys is an ad? Is product placement in movie an ad? How and who will determine if this is and ad or not?

"did the company selling the thing pay for any part of it" seems like a good enough place to start.

Even that isn't as clear-cut as it seems. It isn't just the company that you need to include.

Does your company produce ads for the company that produces Proprietary Toy and get money if they sell more products? Does your company supply batteries for Battery Operated Proprietary Toy? Does your store sell either Proprietary Toy?

And so on.

Re: The case for banning children from social media

#322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not clear how you could effectively regulate this stuff It's not hard. It just upsets vested interests. Make it illegal to show ads to kids. You don't have to make "kid" identification airtight, because few people of any age want to opt into ads. The ad industry was very upset when the American Psychological Association proposed this back in 2004.[1] This doesn't raise constitutional issues because ads are con…

If you forbid ads, then only political propaganda with bring funding to content creators. It’s not just because you hide money that it’s not there.

What are you talking about?

Re: The case for banning children from social media

#323
post #61

I just don't see any alternatives to banning social media, perhaps even up to the age of 18. The dopaminergic effects are not dissimilar to drugs and social media is just as addictive. It's not clear how you could effectively regulate this stuff - especially in our highly polarised political climate. The right will immediately target "wokeness", and the left will immediately target "hate speech". And the kids will be…

As noted by another poster[1]: how are you going to enforce it? The idea of banning people from seeking things they want to do to themselves is incredibly stupid with the "War on Drugs" and it's equally stupid here with all the same consequences: a sudden explosion of either unregulated social media alternatives (back in the day Napster had a chat function even), or suspiciously immature "18 year olds" on Facebook an…

I think this is pretty silly arguments.

People love to say that the war on drugs didn't work, but I for one haven't consumed illegal drugs even though I have been curious at times. Since I haven't spent time with people who regularly break the law I have not been introduced to any element where I could have had access to illegal drugs. So war on drugs has worked at least on me and I live under to illusion that I am somehow unique.

Yes. Of course addicts will addict. If we ban social medias tomorrow some people will still use them or build new ones, but putting any kind of barrier for entry does have an effect. This is why we complain when something is opt-out instead of opt-in since people do the default thing and if default thing is that social medias are illegal then that will deter many if not even most people from using them.

Re: The case for banning children from social media

#324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not clear how you could effectively regulate this stuff It's not hard. It just upsets vested interests. Make it illegal to show ads to kids. You don't have to make "kid" identification airtight, because few people of any age want to opt into ads. The ad industry was very upset when the American Psychological Association proposed this back in 2004.[1] This doesn't raise constitutional issues because ads are con…

Another problem is the definition of "ad". Is kid playing with fancy toys is an ad? Is product placement in movie an ad? How and who will determine if this is and ad or not?

Anytime someone exchanges cash, goods, or services to promote a product or service, and then repeat this inspection up the chain of shell companies!

> Is kid playing with fancy toys is an ad?

not enough context, maybe

> Is product placement in movie an ad?

yes, clearly

> How and who will determine if this is and ad or not?

Probably some corporate compliance drones and underfunded government stooges.

Re: The case for banning children from social media

#325

I just don't see any alternatives to banning social media, perhaps even up to the age of 18. The dopaminergic effects are not dissimilar to drugs and social media is just as addictive. It's not clear how you could effectively regulate this stuff - especially in our highly polarised political climate. The right will immediately target "wokeness", and the left will immediately target "hate speech". And the kids will be…

When I was 14, I too was chatting with strangers on the Internet, be it on IRC or AIM, or sites like Livejournal or independent forums.

That said, I've been contending with this situation having a 14 year old of my own at this point. The reality is, at that time, swatting was not a thing. Pictures on the Internet were like, something a minority of people had, because it involved taking a film picture and scanning it in (assuming you had access to a scanner). Video? Forget it.

Honestly I wouldn't have blamed my own parents for being more restrictive with me had they known how to, but the tech went entirely over their head. Seeing how far it's come in that time and just how much more damage can be VERY rapidly done, particularly with the more developed blackmail scams, or just kids making poor choices that result in some very real criminal charges, have me pretty okay with taking a much heavier hand on the matter than was taken with myself.

I suppose I'd liken it to "free range children" in farmland, vs. free range children in a gangland ghetto. While we can certainly lament the lack of a good environment for kids to run free, the alternative is an unsafe environment. Perhaps platforms can be made to bring back a corralled in space that would be sensible, but allowing them loose on what the modern Internet has turned into would be frankly irresponsible.

That all said, there's only so much we can do at the legislative level. Kids are already not allowed on many sites they get onto (now, just the same as back then). What I find most necessary as a parent is the ability to lock down devices so that I can allow my child access to specific resources without being forced into allowing access to others. iPhones are frankly AWFUL at this -- I'm happy to report my experience on Android has been much smoother, and Windows is quite a bit better than my initial expectations as well (though router-level configuration is handy for home devices as well). IF we must use the heavy hand of government to address the matter, requiring the availability of usable, effective parental control measures that engage in app-level (if not hardware level in the case of cameras) whitelisting would be where I think we'd have the most bang for our buck without too much in the way of collateral damage. Better still would be some market pressure, but unfortunately, most parents I talk to seem to just feel entirely helpless and don't even know what to look for, and just assume there's no choice but to let their kids get raised by the Internet.

If you're new to raising kids in this era, do yourself and your kid a favor -- familiarize yourself with tools available, and demand platforms that give you the ability to effectively administrate your devices.

Re: The case for banning children from social media

#326
While I'm sympathetic, this smells a whole lot like banning kids from malls, which already is happening which along with the deepening suburbanization of America just leads kids to feeling isolated. On some level, you need to let young people socialize and have a space where parents can't micromanage them. I'm not sure parents of yesteryear (boomers) or today (gen X, older millennials) are really okay with that. Given the moves throughout society of bannning kids from most public places, requiring shaperones for under 18s, even teenagers, makes me feel like we're further entrenching the mistakes made boomers made with their children and leading young people to be even more isolated and idealistic only to have them shell shocked once they experience the real world.

Re: The case for banning children from social media

#327

While I'm sympathetic, this smells a whole lot like banning kids from malls, which already is happening which along with the deepening suburbanization of America just leads kids to feeling isolated. On some level, you need to let young people socialize and have a space where parents can't micromanage them. I'm not sure parents of yesteryear (boomers) or today (gen X, older millennials) are really okay with that. Give…

I want a town built from scratch where me and other millenial parents who want our kids to be able to run around and ride bikes and go to corner shops can actually do so.

Re: The case for banning children from social media

#328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"did the company selling the thing pay for any part of it" seems like a good enough place to start.

Even that isn't as clear-cut as it seems. It isn't just the company that you need to include. Does your company produce ads for the company that produces Proprietary Toy and get money if they sell more products? Does your company supply batteries for Battery Operated Proprietary Toy? Does your store sell either Proprietary Toy? And so on.

It really is though.

> Does your company produce ads

There it is, don't do that.

All these other questions are also just "yes." You're looking for nuance where there isn't any. Sponsorship is ads, product placement is ads, giving free product to influencer to review is ads. There are certainly edge cases some of them likely to be thorny but none of the things either of us has mentioned so far are them.

Re: The case for banning children from social media

#329

While I'm sympathetic, this smells a whole lot like banning kids from malls, which already is happening which along with the deepening suburbanization of America just leads kids to feeling isolated. On some level, you need to let young people socialize and have a space where parents can't micromanage them. I'm not sure parents of yesteryear (boomers) or today (gen X, older millennials) are really okay with that. Give…

Really, there should be some public meeting spaces other than malls. The same applies on the internet. At least on the internet there is a wide range of places.

Re: The case for banning children from social media

#330

I just don't see any alternatives to banning social media, perhaps even up to the age of 18. The dopaminergic effects are not dissimilar to drugs and social media is just as addictive. It's not clear how you could effectively regulate this stuff - especially in our highly polarised political climate. The right will immediately target "wokeness", and the left will immediately target "hate speech". And the kids will be…

How to implement such a ban without opening the door for user tracking?
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