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On the experience of being dirt-poorish, for people who want to be

woodfromeden.substack.com

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Re: On the experience of being dirt-poorish, for people who want to be

#41

Post by friend_and_foe »

I relate to this quite a lot actually. Not the taking of charity type thing, I choose a somewhat similar lifestyle but I acknowledge that it is a choice, so I don't take freebies.

Particularly

> I would be working 40 hours a week and would get exactly nothing out of it, financially speaking.

I relate to that a lot. And all the stuff after it. I don't consider it poverty, just a simpler way of living. I cut my monthly expenses down by 80% by downsizing my life, and I actually got more space, freedom, independence, less neighbors, parking, silly rules and miscelanious bullshit.

I just don't understand people that choose to live and work in cities. It always felt like spinning my wheels, and the whole "diversity of food options" struck me as a little snotty. You like diversity because it enables you to pay brown people to cook for you? I just cook for myself. Mostly when people explain to me why they choose the rat race (as I see it) it strikes me as excuses to continue because they don't know how to do anything else, or theyre hung up on status in the eyes of people who don't give a shit about them, or they have a sunk cost fallacy relationship with their student loans or something like that.

I'll take a shack and a propane tank in the sticks to a nice apartment a 5 minute walk from whole foods any day. I'm lucky to have found a partner who is somewhat similar, and we intend to raise our children this way as well. Clean home, but a simple home. Clean clothes and healthy food, but simple. Life is about discovery, adventure, and creation, not consumption. I hope they're happy as adults about their childhoods, I think they will be.

Re: On the experience of being dirt-poorish, for people who want to be

#43

Post by friend_and_foe »

simple-thoughts wrote: post #5

[flagged]

Not caring about what you think is a sign of mental illness?

Theres a social status among many subcultures that eschew mainstream social structure. Bikers have their status signals. Hippies have theirs. Theres probably a subculture of people out there who view this man with envy, as having a sort of monk like, unattainable discipline. Thats status, just not the kind you'd go for.

Leeching off the kindness of others is about where I'd agree with you, beyond that, leaving wider society to its fate and going on your own is a perfectly respectable decision.

Re: On the experience of being dirt-poorish, for people who want to be

#44

Post by ehnto »

friend_and_foe wrote: post #41

I relate to this quite a lot actually. Not the taking of charity type thing, I choose a somewhat similar lifestyle but I acknowledge that it is a choice, so I don't take freebies. Particularly > I would be working 40 hours a week and would get exactly nothing out of it, financially speaking. I relate to that a lot. And all the stuff after it. I don't consider it poverty , just a simpler way of living. I cut my monthl…

> You like diversity because it enables you to pay brown people to cook for you?

This comes across as a shallow understanding of food, culture and the makeup of cities. Cities are often very multi-cultural, all over the world, and not just for food. All races can enjoy that diversity and a somewhat fairer playing field (depending on exactly where you live).

Re: On the experience of being dirt-poorish, for people who want to be

#45

Post by friend_and_foe »

superchroma wrote: post #2

I strongly disagree with the premise. This isn't proper poverty, this is a borderline agrarian lifestyle utilizing various allowances as well as support structures intended for the poor. The author has a personal safety net, as well as a social one supporting them, and took advantage of lax property enforcement to build a house on state land. If you have means and options like they do, you aren't dirt poor. This isn'…

You're right about everything you said, minus the "poverty tourism", I think that's a little excessively condescending.

Poverty is the wrong word for this. Someone else in this thread said it better than I can come up with: poverty is lack of options. If this lifestyle is a choice it isn't poverty. I agree with that. No matter how simple you choose to make your life, if you've got options you're doing good.

Re: On the experience of being dirt-poorish, for people who want to be

#46

Post by geysersam »

bhawks wrote: post #28

The author seems quite selfish and manipulative of others. He chooses to live this way because it allows him to avoid social interactions with others. Unlike true poverty he could easily utilize both his relational capital (call parents, get cash) and educational capital (had the ability to get a professional job and turned it down) these are simply not options for people who are actually poor. He clearly wants more…

Just because he doesn't brag about connecting emotionally with his children you assume he's not a loving father?

I think that's an unwarranted fear considering he's got more time for his kids than most parents.

His upbringing/mental health is probably not without flaw, but seriously whos is? We've got such narrow minded ideas about what a healthy life looks like nowadays. I blame advertisement.

Re: On the experience of being dirt-poorish, for people who want to be

#47

Post by friend_and_foe »

ehnto wrote: post #44
friend_and_foe wrote: post #41

I relate to this quite a lot actually. Not the taking of charity type thing, I choose a somewhat similar lifestyle but I acknowledge that it is a choice, so I don't take freebies. Particularly > I would be working 40 hours a week and would get exactly nothing out of it, financially speaking. I relate to that a lot. And all the stuff after it. I don't consider it poverty , just a simpler way of living. I cut my monthl…

> You like diversity because it enables you to pay brown people to cook for you? This comes across as a shallow understanding of food, culture and the makeup of cities. Cities are often very multi-cultural, all over the world, and not just for food. All races can enjoy that diversity and a somewhat fairer playing field (depending on exactly where you live).

Not to insult, but this sounds like cope and rationalization to me. I could be wrong, but I don't think so. I come from a very, very diverse background and have a very diverse family, including my own personal one. There are 5 ethnicities in my immediate family. I've lived in a couple of very diverse cities most of my life. I've had all the food. It's nice, it's good. But when I hear people say they want to stay in a city due to "diversity" and usually mentioning Chinese take out and sushi, all I hear is a daft white person not realizing they're saying they like cities because the poor immigrants perform services that make their lives better.

Re: On the experience of being dirt-poorish, for people who want to be

#48

Post by vintermann »

yellow_lead wrote: post #38
vintermann wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unlike true poverty he could easily utilize both his relational capital (call parents, get cash) and educational capital (had the ability to get a professional job and turned it down) these are simply not options for people who are actually poor. This is true, but the author doesn't pretend otherwise, or hide this fact. That you accuse him of being selfish I think says more about you than him. I went to a Waldorf s…

Although I'm not the original commentator, I think selfish is a fair characterization. When you have kids you should want to give them the best opportunities possible. If they end up wanting to make the choices the author made, that is fine, but at least they would have the option of living differently too. I'm not saying that it's impossible they will have those opportunities, but it's less likely than if they had a…

As I said in the other comment, I think this guy knows his own situation (which is probably very different from yours) well. He's giving his kids an upbringing that is good in its own way, that gives them experiences and opportunities not many others have. It's very questionable if "prestigious schools before the age of 18" is as optimal as you think in Sweden. It's good to have strengths not many other have.

My "social media star" friend is a school nurse who connects extremely well - and constructively - to the youth generation she serves through her job. I would think that her uncommon background (including a lot more younger siblings than is common in this country, and all with an individualistic streak) prepared her somewhat for that job. I'm sure that if she had instead been given what you and the person I replied to see as an "optimal" background, she would be less prepared for it.

As for the MLM guy, to be fair, I don't know if he's still into that, he just pitched some questionable cell phone provider once when we were in engineering school together. I do know he's better off than me materially today. I mentioned him to illustrate that the apple can fall further from the tree, too.

Re: On the experience of being dirt-poorish, for people who want to be

#49

Post by ehnto »

gizajob wrote: post #18

I enjoyed the article but felt the author is over-egging his frugality past the point of actual meanness. I find that money generally arrives at the level one mentally expects it to, and while he makes a point of saying he's not consuming, he still is, albeit at a low level, by picking through everyone's scraps, which can be as time consuming as putting a bit more thought into earning more for things like buying gift…

I was not impressed by his level of frugalness, and indeed he seems to understate the role of the community he rejects in his family's success, and likewise refuses to give back to that community meaningfully for the favor.

That is the whole point of work and taxes, and I think some people fail to see the connection between work and everything that is around them. Not that I think we should all be wage slaves, but some humility when living off the work of others would seem fair.

Re: On the experience of being dirt-poorish, for people who want to be

#50

Post by [deleted] »

rwnspace wrote: post #39
bhawks wrote: post #28

The author seems quite selfish and manipulative of others. He chooses to live this way because it allows him to avoid social interactions with others. Unlike true poverty he could easily utilize both his relational capital (call parents, get cash) and educational capital (had the ability to get a professional job and turned it down) these are simply not options for people who are actually poor. He clearly wants more…

I would hazard that these are closer to your projections - he does mention having more time to spend socialising with his kids. You were expecting him to allay your fears about what a lack of financial resources might do. The article isn't a celebration of things he does with his kids, but an exploration of having less material wealth, hence the focus, no? I know several families like this, generally hippies with an…

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