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Tiny, cheap smart speakers unlocked the rise of digital payments in India

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Re: Tiny, cheap smart speakers unlocked the rise of digital payments in India

#121

Post by 2Gkashmiri »

signal11 wrote: post #95
justanotheratom wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, visitors can make UPI payments now. See recent news: https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/nri/invest/in-bound-tra...

This is promising, but it’s not as exciting as one would assume — it’s a very limited rollout, ensuring the use/don’t use UPI decision has to be made quite quickly for people unfamiliar with it, which is most tourists. > To start with, it will be available to travelers from G-20 countries, at select international airports (Bengaluru, Mumbai and New Delhi). > Eligible travellers would be issued Prepaid Payment Instrum…

I would say, there isn't much of "dispute resolution" in digital payments in India. Sure if someone steals your ATM ad stuff and transfers money, you can go to bank and they will try to get that back but on the whole, it is generally understood once the payment is received, its gone from your end.

We don't have charge backs or fraudulent claims because everything is conscious, with an otp so buyer beware

Re: Tiny, cheap smart speakers unlocked the rise of digital payments in India

#122

Post by jonfw »

robocat wrote: post #90
jonfw wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two causes to consider. The failure of society to provide equal opportunities to all, and the failure of individuals to capitalize on what opportunities they have available. The trouble with your criticism is that you are focusing entirely on society’s failures, when a more complete analysis would consider what can be done on either side.

> and the failure of individuals to capitalize on what opportunities they have available Yeah, we could blame the 5 year olds for their lack of grit and determination to create their foundation for their reading skills. Alternatively, we can look at what other societies achieve, and try to improve our own. Also you are completely ignoring that plenty of people have functional difficulties learning to read and write.…

We shouldn’t blame 5 year olds, sure, but their parents? Fair game IMO.

This is not to say that society is without blame, but I feel that personal responsibility is increasingly left out of the public discourse

Re: Tiny, cheap smart speakers unlocked the rise of digital payments in India

#123

Post by fy20 »

tamirzb wrote: post #118
signal11 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In my latest trip, I don't believe I paid cash in any shop and I was in a second tier city the whole time, not one of the big metropolitan cities. If you’re a tourist or business visitor, this isn’t possible. UPI isn’t available to you. Also note that many smaller shops which accept cards and do accept India-issued MasterCard/Visa/Rupay won’t take MC/Visa issued abroad, because their payment providers charge them e…

I agree, India in general has pretty bad bureaucracy against tourists, it feels like the government doesn't care at all about attracting them. But I recently saw that Wise supports transferring money to India via UPI (also more anecdotally - I am living in Singapore and saw that some local banks have this feature as well). I guess this won't be as comfortable as just scanning a QR, but couldn't this technically work…

I visited India at the start of this year and attempted to pay for my accomodation with Wise (the business didn't have a credit card terminal that took foreign cards). The payment was accepted and marked as sent by Wise, then I went to reception and they said their bank doesn't allow them to receive foreign payments and it would be returned in a few days (which it was). So off to the ATM I went again...

Re: Tiny, cheap smart speakers unlocked the rise of digital payments in India

#124

Post by lmz »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #98
HHalvi wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Credit Card linking with UPI is live for sometime now [0], currently limited to Rupay cards. I have been using my HDFC Rupay CC to pay for Merchant Payments that accept UPI for last month or so. [0]: https://www.rupay.co.in/rupay-credit-card-on-upi

Any good cards on Rupay? Last time I checked, all the good rewards were on Visa/Mastercard

The good rewards are only possible if the merchants are paying for it through transaction costs. I'd bet on "no" since the national alternatives to Visa/MasterCard usually advertise themselves as "cheaper".

Re: Tiny, cheap smart speakers unlocked the rise of digital payments in India

#125

Post by theshrike79 »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #58
sfifs wrote: post #3

I visited India a few times in the last 9 months after digital payments had taken off due to COVID and can attest that these have been game changers that have led shopkeeps to accept e-payments. More than anything to do with literacy, this basically allows Shopkeeper to keep doing what they are doing without fiddling with their phones etc to confirm they received money. The device just says the amount received out lo…

I sometimes go weeks without realizing that I have literally zero cash in my wallet. I was using UPI so much that my credit card usage had dropped to almost nothing. Literally had to force myself to use the credit card more to accumulate some rewards.

I haven't used cash since COVID started and very rarely see anyone else use it either.

I do have enough cash in a side section of my wallet to get me home by taxi from a reasonable distance - just in case.

Re: Tiny, cheap smart speakers unlocked the rise of digital payments in India

#126

Post by TheHappyOddish »

Am I crazy here? If you're buying a device, why not buy an EFTPOS (credit card/touch pay) machine that facilitates the transaction?

Is Google/Apple Pay not prevelant in India? Given they're paying by their phone, surely it is?

I feel like I'm missing something here, this method seems more complex than the now standard "tap your phone on the machine" in my country. The banks give them out for free or a small fee (they take a fee per transaction) or the vendors use a third party like Square.

Re: Tiny, cheap smart speakers unlocked the rise of digital payments in India

#127

Post by worklaptopacct »

signal11 wrote: post #87
sfifs wrote: post #3

I visited India a few times in the last 9 months after digital payments had taken off due to COVID and can attest that these have been game changers that have led shopkeeps to accept e-payments. More than anything to do with literacy, this basically allows Shopkeeper to keep doing what they are doing without fiddling with their phones etc to confirm they received money. The device just says the amount received out lo…

> In my latest trip, I don't believe I paid cash in any shop and I was in a second tier city the whole time, not one of the big metropolitan cities. If you’re a tourist or business visitor, this isn’t possible. UPI isn’t available to you. Also note that many smaller shops which accept cards and do accept India-issued MasterCard/Visa/Rupay won’t take MC/Visa issued abroad, because their payment providers charge them e…

It's surprisingly common to just forget tourists/newcomers to your country exist. I've visited Brazil and I could not activate a SIM card I bought because it expected me to put in a CPF, a local equivalent of a SSN which obviously, as a tourist, I did not have. Many places which offered services to tourists (in English!) still expected a CPF to let me book entrance, for example.

Even living in the EU, oftentimes showing any other document than a citizen ID card issued in the country you're in will cause stress, confusion and nervous phone calls.

Re: Tiny, cheap smart speakers unlocked the rise of digital payments in India

#128

Post by pwn0 »

TheHappyOddish wrote: post #126

Am I crazy here? If you're buying a device, why not buy an EFTPOS (credit card/touch pay) machine that facilitates the transaction? Is Google/Apple Pay not prevelant in India? Given they're paying by their phone, surely it is? I feel like I'm missing something here, this method seems more complex than the now standard "tap your phone on the machine" in my country. The banks give them out for free or a small fee (they…

The tap & pay model is an extension of payment using credit cards which has been the preferred payment method in the west for decades. On the other hand, credit cards never caught on in India, specially among the middle and lower middle class folks which is a large chunk of the population. So while the west underwent evolution from paper currency to credit cards to digital payments, India skipped the credit card generation and went straight for digital payments thanks to cheap android phones and free/subsidized/cheap 3G/4G data costs.

Re: Tiny, cheap smart speakers unlocked the rise of digital payments in India

#129

Post by tpreetham »

TheHappyOddish wrote: post #126

Am I crazy here? If you're buying a device, why not buy an EFTPOS (credit card/touch pay) machine that facilitates the transaction? Is Google/Apple Pay not prevelant in India? Given they're paying by their phone, surely it is? I feel like I'm missing something here, this method seems more complex than the now standard "tap your phone on the machine" in my country. The banks give them out for free or a small fee (they…

The reason could because of how these payments apps evolved.

People already had cheap android phones in their hand. After the 4g boom, many got their first smartphone.

UPI related playment apps started with QR code scanning, just like in China.

There is no extra cost to the vendor. All they need is a sticker with their QR, which customers can scan. Later, they came up with a (bluetooth) speaker which can announce payments. It doesn't even need a connected smartphone.

If they used cards, they need to manufacture it and the readers. Ship them to their home addresses (which is complicated and lossy), train them about card usage.

For many vendors who accepted UPI payments, it was their first time accepting something other than cash as payments.

Re: Tiny, cheap smart speakers unlocked the rise of digital payments in India

#130

Post by tony_antony »

> Six months after subscribing, Singh received an instant loan of 3 lakh rupees (around $3,600) from Paytm. He used the money to add more products to his store. “I had never thought of taking up a loan since it involves lots of paperwork and could take months to get processed. Here, I got it instantly so I took it up,” he said. After he paid it off, Singh took another loan from Paytm for 5 lakh rupees (around $6,000).

This a brilliant strategy for generating proof of financial transactions and thus making small businesses eligible for credit.

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