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Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

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Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#251

Post by s1artibartfast »

anonymouskimmer wrote: post #242
s1artibartfast wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But there are effects all down the ladder, and at some point the effects of the laws stop helping build wealth and start hurting it. This was actually the point I was trying to make. It depends on how you look at it, but by one measure, taxes on net are slowing the wealth accumulation of everyone who pays more than the national average tax. Those who pay less than the average are typically living hand to mouth and n…

For the generationally wealthy laws such as stepped up basis and lower taxes on capital gains are also counter factors. The mortgage interest deduction in particular now helps the top 20% or so afford their homes. And afford to continue paying more for homes in their range. Thus boosting property values and prices. While the lack of mortgage interest deduction for additional homes increases the cost of homes which ar…

I agree with most of what you said, but I would quibble with how costs are passed on to consumers. passing costs on is a lot more complext when goods are not being sold at their margional production costs (e.g. someone has a profit margin).

>To an extent this is true. But this argument is also used to say that renters don't pay property taxes. Maybe not, but property taxes have a direct, proportionate effect on the rent that they pay.

When you have makets with a gap between production cost and the market price, there is the possiblity that the seller simply eats the cost.

Imagine wallmart selling widgets with a profit. If the price of the widget is already set where the marginal profit for increasing the sticker price is zero, This holds true even if production costs go up. i.e., raising the price still results in fewer sales and less profit, independent of production cost.

In terms of housing, if nobody can afford higher rent, landlords cant raise it without more vacancies. In that case, tax might come out of their profit and not be passed on.

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#252

Post by JamesBarney »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #185
JamesBarney wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the economy was a zero or negative sum game we'd still have the same food insecurity we did 500 years ago. But we don't, the world has gotten much better in the last 500 years from people working hard on making it better, many getting rich in the process.

Your benchmark was Rich. Rich is a relative term, it means more money that everyone else. If everyone owns 5 houses, to be rich you have to own 500

The status is zero sum, wealth is not. We all live in bigger houses with more amenities and greater food security than our ancestors.

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#253

Post by throwaway675309 »

thrashh wrote: post #237
czbond wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you pointed out is adults have responsibilities. We all have responsibilities to work around to follow your goals and dreams. Not having responsibilities is not a sign of privilege - but just a sign of a different phase of life. So that means one has to be tactical to pick the opportunity that matches what effort & energy one can put towards that opportunity.

You can’t work around all responsibilities. For example, if you have to take care of your sick mom, you simply cannot do it. I’m going to be honest. You don’t sound super privileged but you are more privileged than a lot of people and you don’t seem to realize it. There is nothing wrong with privilege and there are definitely lazy people but it gets ridiculous when you keep posting “if I could do it, why can’t everyo…

Totally agree, but people get really hung up and defensive when you imply that their success came from anything except sheer grit and Horatio Algers rags to riches work ethic.

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#254

Post by boplicity »

anonymouskimmer wrote: post #195
boplicity wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand your logic. I was middle class, and could afford more than one throw. The assumption in the OP was that a middle class kid can only afford one throw, which wasn't true, in my case. I was fortunate, because I knew better than to "throw" all of my money at an opportunity, not because I wasn't middle class.

Could you have afforded more than one throw, if your first throw had missed? If it had missed so badly you figuratively hit a bystander with the dart, and now owed more than you had originally put in (microbusinesses aren't typically protected under limited liability)?

I had some pretty clear failures when I was starting out, but they didn't cost much money beyond web hosting, a domain name, and some wasted time. Sure, you can always worry about some existential risk, such as causing real harm you're liable for. But that's starting to sound like an excuse not to take action.

My main point is that it is actually possible start a business with almost no risk and almost no capital. Not that you'll succeed. And if you don't that's OK.

Failure is an option, and if you're smart, it's an option you can easily recover from.

Honestly, I think I learned half of this attitude from playing competitive video games in the late 90s. You just keep trying stuff. If it doesn't work, you can do another round. (Gah -- I'm in awe of how much free time I used to have.)

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#255

Post by anonymouskimmer »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #251
anonymouskimmer wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the generationally wealthy laws such as stepped up basis and lower taxes on capital gains are also counter factors. The mortgage interest deduction in particular now helps the top 20% or so afford their homes. And afford to continue paying more for homes in their range. Thus boosting property values and prices. While the lack of mortgage interest deduction for additional homes increases the cost of homes which ar…

I agree with most of what you said, but I would quibble with how costs are passed on to consumers. passing costs on is a lot more complext when goods are not being sold at their margional production costs (e.g. someone has a profit margin). >To an extent this is true. But this argument is also used to say that renters don't pay property taxes. Maybe not, but property taxes have a direct, proportionate effect on the r…

> In that case, tax might come out of their profit and not be passed on.

Yes, this is true. Some landlords merely use rent to offset the cost of the house, not to cover it entirely. But over enough years, the majority of rental property has to be paying its way, or it gets sold off.

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#256

Post by anonymouskimmer »

boplicity wrote: post #254
anonymouskimmer wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you have afforded more than one throw, if your first throw had missed? If it had missed so badly you figuratively hit a bystander with the dart, and now owed more than you had originally put in (microbusinesses aren't typically protected under limited liability)?

I had some pretty clear failures when I was starting out, but they didn't cost much money beyond web hosting, a domain name, and some wasted time. Sure, you can always worry about some existential risk, such as causing real harm you're liable for. But that's starting to sound like an excuse not to take action. My main point is that it is actually possible start a business with almost no risk and almost no capital. No…

Programming may be an exceptional exception to this then. Perhaps other industries such as marketing are too.

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#257

Post by PragmaticPulp »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #178
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Rich kids can afford many throws. If they want to, they can try over and over and over again until they hit something and feel good about themselves. I see this story repeated over and and over again on the internet, but I don't really see it playing out the same way in the real world. I've seen a lot of "rich kids" try to start businesses, but then quickly realize that it's a huge amount of work and not guaranteed…

Rich kids does not mean rich idiots and does imply they do no work. It simply implies that in a case where both have considerable skills and effort, the 'rich kid' will get much farther

> It simply implies that in a case where both have considerable skills and effort, the 'rich kid' will get much farther

Well if you assume everything is equal but you give one person more money then, sure, that person has a higher chance of success.

But that's missing the point: Many important things are not equal between the two groups, and it doesn't always benefit the wealthier one when it comes to starting companies.

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#258

Post by ameister14 »

wootland wrote: post #227
ameister14 wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if I take that as true, it's still not "using the power of law" to follow the law. "Using the power of law" implies some degree of control over the law.

I said "power law" not "power of law", meaning winner take all. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_law

That's not what the power law means, though. It's not a thing you 'use' to stay on top. It describes things, it doesn't influence things. Just because 20% earn 80% doesn't mean that you can use the Pareto distribution to keep in that 20%.

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#259

Post by hgs3 »

FlyingSnake wrote: post #8

Entrepreneurship is like one of those carnival games where you throw darts or something. Middle class kids can afford one throw. Most miss. A few hit the target and get a small prize. A very few hit the center bullseye and get a bigger prize. Rags to riches! The American Dream lives on. Rich kids can afford many throws. If they want to, they can try over and over and over again until they hit something and feel good…

Being well connected is far more important than being rich. Consider Bill Gates: he came from an affluent family, is intelligent, and hardworking...but so are many people. What ultimately set him apart was that his mother knew the chairman of IBM.

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#260

Post by svnt »

lmeyerov wrote: post #243
svnt wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This common advice is arguably the best way to guarantee the failure of your new venture.

Source? Every path is hard, so saying that's the worst is one of the most extreme claims one can possibly make. Ex: I can argue that VC funding is much worse than having paying customers in your space and the luxury to pivot & explore until things work. Having to double down your growth bet every 18mo or die trying is a real killer. People get confused by thinking the VC path is awesome because VCs only fund good com…

Gauging from this reply I’m not entirely sure we disagree — it may just come down to wording. You said part time consulting. If it happens to serve as networking and you can bootstrap then in most conversations I’m in that would be called bootstrapping.

My point was that part-time pure paid consulting while trying to start an (under-)funded product business is one of the worst things you can do. Would-be founders end up never needing to commit to the riskier venture and having a hard time disentangling form consulting. Source: decades of startup founding and employment experience.

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