Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 279 posts

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#221

Post by anonymouskimmer »

zdragnar wrote: post #214
anonymouskimmer wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point the original comment was making is that richer kids get more throws. The particular number 1 was used to highlight the magnitude of this difference. If you read it literally, then sure, it isn't true of all edge cases.

And the refutation was that the "number of throws" matters less than the scale of risk they took on each "throw", hence why I said it was a bad analogy. If the point of the original comment is that rich people have more money, then I'm not really sure what was worth pointing out.

I think status (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35400562 ) is a bigger deal than personal risk. Status lessens personal risk, by getting buy-in from others.

This can work even with poor people who have connections and status within their community.

Status not only gets buy-in from others for business operations, but gets buy in from customers, which is required for any business to survive and thrive.

I've had Adam Neumann, in particular, in mind while reading this thread. He famously had multiple shots. Some of these may have been while just a child of the upper middle class, but his most recent big ones were because of his connection to status within the upper class.

It's kind of like the failing upward of executives of broken companies. Once you get past a certain level of status it's really, really hard to lose it all so much that you can't get buy in from others.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/11/wework-...

> What distinguished Neumann, along with his ambition, was “his connection to capital,” Wiedeman writes. Neumann had married Rebekah Paltrow, a wealthy cousin of Gwyneth Paltrow and a kabbalah devotee. She invested part of a $1 million nest egg in WeWork and introduced her husband to Manhattan’s Kabbalah Centre, where he met other well-off backers.

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#222

Post by s1artibartfast »

anonymouskimmer wrote: post #205
ameister14 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't describe most generational wealth. A family house is generational wealth. Most people who at age 65-75 are worth over $1 million dollars didn't get there by using the power of law to stay on top or profiteering from slavery or genocide. That's insane.

> didn't get there by using the power of law NIMBYism is the power of law. Mortgage interest deduction is the power of law. Without either, that million dollars of wealth, much of it in the home, would be a lot less.

I think it's a mixed bag. Without progressive taxation regimes and property tax, I would expect those people to have much more wealth, not less.

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#223

Post by coldtea »

mattgreenrocks wrote: post #198
coldtea wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still a random personal anecdote. And the "strategy" is an empty trivial advice. Do you think other poor people trying to start businesses don't try to do it with "almost no monetary investment"? Not only they try that, that's the only way they can afford to try anyway. Still no match for a big monetary investment, and still much much harder for them to get the same outcomes as an enterpreneur coming from privil…

This is cynicism disguising itself as wisdom. Of course people with privilege have it easier. The whole world runs on the Matthew Effect because it's too lazy to do anything else. It isn't just or fair. Until you can fully accept that truth and do things despite that, you're stuck. Me? As someone who rarely is fully confident about things, I'm fully confident I'll achieve some moderate success in bootstrapping if onl…

>This is cynicism disguising itself as wisdom

Nope, just reality described as is.

>Of course people with privilege have it easier. (...) Until you can fully accept that truth and do things despite that, you're stuck.

That, on the other hand, is fatalism described as realism.

Nothing ever changed without outrage about how things are.

And even less by people accepting them and trying to get by "despite that".

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#224

Post by unity1001 »

boplicity wrote: post #74
FlyingSnake wrote: post #8

Entrepreneurship is like one of those carnival games where you throw darts or something. Middle class kids can afford one throw. Most miss. A few hit the target and get a small prize. A very few hit the center bullseye and get a bigger prize. Rags to riches! The American Dream lives on. Rich kids can afford many throws. If they want to, they can try over and over and over again until they hit something and feel good…

> Middle class kids can afford one throw. Gotta disagree with this. As someone who grew up middle class, I was fortunate, in a lot of ways, to also learn to be prudent with money. I started bootstrapping microbusinesses with almost no monetary investment. This eventually allowed me to support myself (on a very low budget), and then, later, on a slightly larger budget. Eventually, one of these businesses became succes…

> Maybe they don't have some of the same luxuries my family was able to give me: a couple of years of college paid for

They don't. And that counts as pretty well off today.

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#225

Post by anonymouskimmer »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #222
anonymouskimmer wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> didn't get there by using the power of law NIMBYism is the power of law. Mortgage interest deduction is the power of law. Without either, that million dollars of wealth, much of it in the home, would be a lot less.

I think it's a mixed bag. Without progressive taxation regimes and property tax, I would expect those people to have much more wealth, not less.

The very top, sure. But there are effects all down the ladder, and at some point the effects of the laws stop helping build wealth and start hurting it. Some of these taxation regimes are functionally regressive, at least at the top.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/eriksherman/2023/03/26/financia...

> The reason most people don’t get the mortgage interest benefit is because claiming it requires itemizing tax deductions rather than using the standard deduction. But to itemize, you need enough deductions. In 2019, the Tax Foundation estimated how many people itemized after those big tax changes in 2017 that made it harder for most taxpayers to do so. It was 13.7%, or more than 17 percentage points lower than before the 2017 law.

> Desmond pointed to a National Bureau of Economic Research study from 2015. Even at that point, about $195 billion of the $270 billion the federal government spent on housing was in the form of these tax code-based deductions. The remaining $75 billion is spent on the poor, or less than a third as much.

> That $195 billion now is for the people who can claim it on their taxes, or less than 14% of the tax paying population.

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#226

Post by wootland »

ameister14 wrote: post #172
wootland wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of those people are middle/upper-middle class people in massive debt. The kind of upper-class Harvard grad that VCs like are most definitely of the old money variety.

>The kind of upper-class Harvard grad that VCs like are most definitely of the old money variety. Do you have any evidence for this? [edit] Of course, you'll likely be able to find a single case and that's any evidence. So how about is there sufficient evidence to support your conclusion that "old money" is getting all the VC funding?

I don't think there's been research done on generational wealth of funded founders, but there's plenty that shows highly skewed investment patterns:

https://techcrunch.com/2021/08/29/diversifying-startups-and-...

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#227

Post by wootland »

ameister14 wrote: post #218
anonymouskimmer wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> didn't get there by using the power of law NIMBYism is the power of law. Mortgage interest deduction is the power of law. Without either, that million dollars of wealth, much of it in the home, would be a lot less.

Even if I take that as true, it's still not "using the power of law" to follow the law. "Using the power of law" implies some degree of control over the law.

I said "power law" not "power of law", meaning winner take all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_law

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#228

Post by [deleted] »

digging wrote: post #139
nightski wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To remove barriers and give people a chance to achieve what they desire (if they desire). That doesn't mean everyone will have the same opportunities and/or the same circumstances. And no it doesn't, this is not an argument against assistance programs.

Seems like an arbitrary line. Lifting someone out of poverty is removing a barrier. Helping people make social connections is removing a barrier.

[deleted]

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#229

Post by JohnFen »

FlyingSnake wrote: post #8

Entrepreneurship is like one of those carnival games where you throw darts or something. Middle class kids can afford one throw. Most miss. A few hit the target and get a small prize. A very few hit the center bullseye and get a bigger prize. Rags to riches! The American Dream lives on. Rich kids can afford many throws. If they want to, they can try over and over and over again until they hit something and feel good…

> Middle class kids can afford one throw.

> Poor kids aren't visiting the carnival.

This doesn't agree with my experience. I grew up poor, and by the time I hit middle class income levels, had already thrown the dart more than once. At middle class, I also threw the dart a few times.

One of the things people misunderstand about starting businesses is that they think you need a lot of money to do it. You don't. Adequate funding makes the experience more comfortable (fewer nights going without eating, the ability to hire people to help, etc.), and perhaps makes the venture more likely to succeed (although that's a matter of legitimate debate), but isn't necessary.

What's necessary -- regardless of monetary resources -- is an almost pathological drive to do whatever it takes to make the business work. I've found, personally, that the single factor that makes the difference between success and failure is being in a position where failure would mean complete and total personal disaster. Then my survival instincts kick in and help.

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#230

Post by JohnFen »

coldtea wrote: post #223
mattgreenrocks wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is cynicism disguising itself as wisdom. Of course people with privilege have it easier. The whole world runs on the Matthew Effect because it's too lazy to do anything else. It isn't just or fair. Until you can fully accept that truth and do things despite that, you're stuck. Me? As someone who rarely is fully confident about things, I'm fully confident I'll achieve some moderate success in bootstrapping if onl…

> This is cynicism disguising itself as wisdom Nope, just reality described as is. > Of course people with privilege have it easier. (...) Until you can fully accept that truth and do things despite that, you're stuck. That, on the other hand, is fatalism described as realism. Nothing ever changed without outrage about how things are. And even less by people accepting them and trying to get by "despite that".

"Every pessimist thinks themself a realist."
Post reply on HN